Oil and water leak.

[Flagman101]

Hello. As some of you may remember i have done a complet rebuild of my A4 last winter.
The engine runs superbly but i had no time really testing it yet and running it for many hours. Until 2 weeks ago for ma summer vacation.
The trip we did was of course UPWIND and on a river. So there was my chance to finaly breaking the A4.
I ran the engine at about 70% RPM for about 4 hours every day.
Every thing was A1. Oil pressure rock steady.
On the second day i notice a drop in oil pressure.
I check the engine compartement and notice a water leak from my Jabsco water pump.
The leak came from the pump body, from the hole between both seals.
It did not explain the drop in oil pressure. I checked the oil level and it was pretty low.
After checking again, i notice the the water coming out of the pump was also very oily. I was loosing oil and water. I lost about 2 quarts in the bilge. ( Hello polution). I did not notice the oil because its brand new and clean.
I had changed the seals on the water pumps. There brand new.
I can understand that the pump builds some pressure and might push some water across the seal if it gets to high but i dont see how oil could be pushed. There is no oil pressure there that i know of.

A few details. The accesorie drive was modified for the oil level.
I have hade to install a restriction on the water bypass loop because of a coroded thermostat housing ( Water prerssure?!?)

I removed the water pump, and checked every engine block bolts in that area. A few were able to turn a bit, but noting to explain such a leak.
I used some liquid gasket and put some on the oil side of the seal.
Re-installed the pump and started the engine.
I still had the water leak but no oil anymore.
I could continue my trip.


I have at home a Oberdorfer N202 pump wich i could rebuild.
Any imput on why this happened would be welcome.
I suspect the seals i bought were not tight enough to properly seal the shaft.
What would be the seal diameter to get a nice seal?

[Don Moyer]

N202M series pumps are the latest models from Oberdorfer (introduced approximately 4 years ago) so the pump you have at home should be a viable housing to rebuild. I recommend replacing both the shaft and the seals to insure that no leak develops in the near future.

Don

[Flagman101]

Maybe i should have replaced the shaft as well.
I'll do that.
Thanks

[67c&ccorv]

(

Maybe i should have replaced the shaft as well.
I'll do that.
Thanks

Flagman101 - if you ran your new water pump seals on the old waterpump shaft (which is probably knarly and corroded) then you will have to replace the seals when you install a new shaft. The old shaft will most likely have damaged the seals when the rebuild motor was operated.

[Flagman101]

The shaft itself was in pretty good shape. A little wear but very smooth.
You can tell where the seals touch it but its not a groove.
I just think that the guy wo sold me the seals just got them a bit to large. the seal lip just make lite contatct with the shaft.

I tought i had a N202M pump at home, but Don said its ther enew model.
The spare pump i have is an Oberdorfer, but it does not have the oring on the back plate.
It most be a prior model. But parts seem to be intergeable. The Oberdorfer shaft fits perfectly in the jabsco pump on the engine.
I will order new seals, a shaft and new impeller for the spare oberdorfer and rebuild it. The jabsco will come out and be rebuilt as a spare just in case.

[Mike Jenkins]

Another leaking Pump

Hi Folks, I also did a motor rebuild last year and although the motor runs well I have noticed leaking through the wep hole on my original Oberdorfer water pump. I did install a rebuild kit with new shaft, shoe, impleller and seals. I followed the Moyor rebuild manual and all seemed well in the shop while intitially running the engine. I now have about 10-12 hours on the new rebuilt engine. The new shoe and impeller must also have added more pressure to the system.

The only solution I can think of is to check how I installed the seals.It is possible that I damaged the area where I removed the old seals. This required prying out with a screw driver chewing up the original seals. The original shaft also had a groove in it but there was no leaking. Any other ideas other than replacing seals and honing the shaft tube area. Oil leakage has not been a problem.

Mike

[roadnsky]

The original shaft also had a groove in it but there was no leaking. Any other ideas other than replacing seals and honing the shaft tube area. Oil leakage has not been a problem.

Mike-
Do you have the seals installed facing in the correct direction?
Was the grove still in the shaft when you did the rebuild or did you put in a new shaft?
A "groove" in the shaft would very likely leak when you installed the new seals.

[Mike Jenkins]

Hi Jerry,

The rebuild kit had a new smooth shaft and impeller. I was aware of the necessity to install the sels in a certain orientation, but I can't remember what orientation I used. I believe it was the metal side with the writing out on the inner water seal. I can still see a slow dripping out of the pump weep hole and it may be possible that some water is going elsewhere. I hope not. i do not see evidence of it in oil or exhaust.

I will remove the pump during the off season to inspect and possibly repair. Until then I just add water to the fresh water cooling system heat exchanger as required.

Regards Mike

[roadnsky]

The rebuild kit had a new smooth shaft and impeller. I was aware of the necessity to install the sels in a certain orientation, but I can't remember what orientation I used.

Ok, so it's not caused by the groove in the shaft. (I should have noticed that you said that earlier)

This from Don's tech notes: "Be sure to orient the new inner
seal so that you will have the name "Oberdorfer" facing you when the seal is
installed. This will have the lip of the seal facing in the direction of
the impeller chamber. The seal on the flange end of the housing needs to be
installed in the opposite direction. The flange seal should be installed
with the name "Oberdorfer" facing away from you, so that the lip of the seal
faces the engine when the pump is installed."

If your pump is in fact leaking from the weep hole, then it's the seal.
I have this very same issue on my pump (http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3520) but fortunately I bought the pump from MMI...

[Flagman101]

Removing the old seals is pretty hard. The first one comes out fairly easy but the bottom one is all but impossible to pull out without breaking it. I actually had to cut it.
Mayby when installing the new seals we should put some Form-A-Gasket to te pump body and seal body. If there is damage on the body, water could leak.
I think.
Anyone knows how tick the cam shoe should be?
Mine looks a bit worned but i have no idea if it is or not.

[kaibleu]

Anyone knows how tick the cam shoe should be?
Mine looks a bit worned but i have no idea if it is or not.

If you suspect it's worn, why not replace it?
You can buy one from MMI on this site.

[Dromo]

June Bugs Marlinspike Page

What's all the fuss about?

I, too, will be replacing the seals on my pump in the near future.

In my opinion, here is one of the best step by step tutorials on the web, on a water pump rebuild - http://home.earthlink.net/~ultratom/marlinspike.htm
Click on water pump rebuild
Cheers

Rick

[Marian Claire]

Dromo Nice link. I will soon be rebuilding the oberdorfer that came new with a leak. Have rebuilt one before, and she is still fine, despite my mistakes. This time I will have a “improved screwdriver" and the right sealant. Dan S/V Marian Claire

[Flagman101]

What's all the fuss about?

I, too, will be replacing the seals on my pump in the near future.

In my opinion, here is one of the best step by step tutorials on the web, on a water pump rebuild - http://home.earthlink.net/~ultratom/marlinspike.htm
Click on water pump rebuild
Cheers

Rick

Wow!! Nice. Exactly all the info i needed.
It even says the tickness of the shoe.
Big thanks

[Rick_Powers]

Shoe

The shoe shouldn't be ticking....