We live in Freeport Maine...

[joe_db]

Seems like GEM gave up from the result of two bad mechanics...too bad..

edit - It has only been two days..maybe he'll come back and get invigorated. C'mon, GEM, we can help you, but you will need some GoJo hand cleaner when you are done!! If you are not willing to get your hands dirty, then good luck, sir.

I suspect that is a common A4 issue. There seem to be a lot of mechanics with no ability to work on these engines and plenty more with no desire. I can sort of understand why too. The *newest* A4s are over 30 years old at this point, excepting Moyer remans, and tend to be owned by financially limited sailors (me included!). So from the viewpoint of a shop that charges someplace between probably $70 to $100 an hour, they know the owners are not likely to pay for the time to fix the engine correctly and if they do a half-donkey quick repair they will be getting called for "warrrany" work every time anything breaks on the boat*.
* I once changed the starter on an ancient Gray Marine engine - located at he aft end of the boat - and then got sued for breaking the anchor windlass - located at the bow. In court my defense was I never got within 30 feet of the thing and I won
OTOH we are blessed with AMAZING aftermarket and community support. Have an old diesel from decades ago? Some of them have no support at all and no one who even remembers working on them. If my boat had come with the optional diesel, a marinized and dieselized MG Midget engine, I would be ordering parts from an antique tractor place in England if they still have any left

[roadnsky]

...I appreciate it's not our way but I think there comes a time when we have to accept it's his way.

Agreed.
I just couldn't help myself after reading about the "professional" mechanics.

Like you said earlier, maybe a diesel is in his future.

[ndutton]

Whatever is best for him, that's all that matters.

Not everybody has the same comfort zone in terms of abilities and learning. I learned this many years ago from the mother of my daughter's schoolmate. The girls were in middle school and the district had adopted a fuzzy math program all about self esteem rather than mathematical mastery. We parents attended an evening program hosted by the math faculty and administrators intended to present and explain the program. About halfway through their presentation I wrote a note to my wife and handed it to her as I left, "This is crap, I'm outta here." She showed it to the mother sitting on the other side.

The following day we were discussing it and I told this other mother, "Your time and effort would be better spent working on math skills with your daughter rather than fighting with the school district administration trying to get them to revert back to solid math teaching which they'll never do." She said, and I'll never forget it, "Maybe you can do that but what are the rest of us who don't have the math skills supposed to do?"

I'd never considered her position, that mathematics wasn't as natural to everyone as it was to me. My ignorance borne of arrogance was on full display.

[GEM555]

"This forum is not to find mechanics but to get the members able to keep the A-4 tuned and running reliably."

I understand - you can own an A4 but you had better be a good mechanic because shore-side support is thin on the ground. And since I can't turn a wrench, that leaves me in a "bit of a pickle".

Slipping a diesel into a 1984 Catalina hull isn't the best use of 20K. My wife has suggested a deep water bath and turn the boat into one of those "fish reef" things. My neighbor helpfully suggested that he could tow the boat ("really fast") behind his Chapparal with the idea, I suppose, that I'd throw it into gear at some point and jump start it.

Back here on earth, the engine worked after the first gentleman repaired it - for 5 hours (by the engine timer/tach I had installed). Didn't idle very well, but we had no problem starting it. Shut it off on a Sunday and went to start it on the following Friday and...nothing. No amount of choke, throttle, or harsh language would get that engine running. Called the original guy only to find he had gone on a 6-week walkabout to South Carolina. No one else in the business would touch it. When he got back, he wouldn't either - unless I had it towed back down the coast to him.

Many phone calls later, enter contestant number two. He poured raw gas into the cylinders. Still nothing. He said we had the water intrusion problem, (since I was unaware of the "don't leave the cooling water valve open when cranking" rule). That, in turn, led to the cylinder head work we had done over the winter. Lapped the valves, fixed stuck valves and replaced two valve springs. Put the boat in the water in the spring and we went to start on Saturday and...nothing. Again - no amount of choke, throttle, or harsh language would get that engine running.

Finally - after all afternoon Sunday - we got the thing to start. The mechanic came out and adjusted the carburetor - something about "mixture" - and idle.

I like the idea of an electronic ignition with proper new coil someone suggested. What's the story on that?

"Sorry to hear of your troubles and even more sorry you feel incapable of learning the engine yourself."
I understand my limitations. The people to feel sorry for are the guys who work as professionals who don't understand theirs!

[GEM555]

"The *newest* A4s are over 30 years old at this point, excepting Moyer remans, and tend to be owned by financially limited sailors (me included!). So from the viewpoint of a shop that charges someplace between probably $70 to $100 an hour, they know the owners are not likely to pay for the time to fix the engine correctly and if they do a half-donkey quick repair they will be getting called for "warrrany" work every time anything breaks on the boat*.

I think that is especially true here in Maine. The season is so short and they gotta make hay while the sun is shining. I can direct you to yards that will do good work - if you have buckets of money to spend and don't look too closely at the billing. But if you have a budget and think things should cost what you are told they WILL cost? "Not so much".

[Al Schober]

Gem,
The engine is no good, so get a certified & guaranteed rebuilt engine? If you go that route, I suspect the new engine will have the same issues! You say the engine ran for 5 hours - IMHO you do NOT have an engine problem. My guess right now is an exhaust system issue, allowing water into the engine - but you haven't given us any good diagnostic information. Could also be a fuel tank that has a half gallon of rain water in the bottom (caused often by a bad O-ring on the fuel fill), or an electrical issue (perhaps a corroded ignition switch).
Please, go through the 'no start' checklist and let us know the results. We look forward to helping you fix your engine. We also look forward to the day down the road when you're helping folks fix their engines, and are telling folks what a great engine the A4 is!

[zellerj]

Well I am glad you responded, I had an inkling that you were gone for good on this forum. Glad to hear that you are not made of money, too. It is much more fun and challenging to be on a budget.

Please forget that you are mechanically ill equipped. If you can read and walk and chew gum you can get this engine to be reliable.

This is what I would do:

1) check to make sure your gas is good. Now how to do that you may ask. On top of the Catalina gas tank there is a round plate with a bunch of screws. Behind this plate is the gas gauge, commonly called the sender unit. Once the screws are removed, take out the sender. Put a skinny plastic tube, about three feet long, down into the lower forward corner, and take out a sample by sucking on the tube for just a little bit to suck up about 18 inches of gas - careful not to get a mouthful. Quickly place your finger over the mouth end of the tube to keep the gas in the tube by "nature abhors a vacuum" effect, and then put the dirty end of the tube in a clear glass and release your finger. Is the gas that you sucked out of the bottom of the tank clean? Contain water?. If good pure yellow gas, you should be good to go with this. If not fixing involves draining and removing the gas tank, and cleaning it up - easy and cheap to do on a Catalina 30.

Note: The pickup tube for the gas sits an inch or so above the bottom of the gas tank. If all is still - not bumpy - the pick up tube will suck up good gas. However, when it does get bumpy, and all of that water and crap gets suspended where the pick up tube can get to it - engine stalls and won't start because crap and water got into the carburetor. With a good clean fuel system, one very seldom have fuel issues.

2) Buy a Moyer marine carburetor. For $320 in my opinion, nothing can add more reliability than a fresh new carb. Old carbs can be rebuilt, but sometimes a carb just wears out. I was never good at getting old carbs to be reliable. New carb: $320.

3) Get an electronic ignition unit from Moyer Marine. This eliminates all mechanical points that can get corroded etc from sitting over the winter or in a humid environment. It is easy to install - just follow the directions. I believe a screw driver and a pocket knife is all you need. $112 from Moyer. Read the directions before going to the boat just to be sure you have everything you need.

3) Get the Moyer Marine ignition coil. It has the proper resistance for the electronic ignition - $50. Otherwise the electronic ignition will allow two high a voltage to get to the coil, causing it to get hot and short it out. Resistance is needed to cut down the voltage a little so the iginition coil will last for years.

This spend of under $500 solves 99% of all issues - clean gas, good carburetor, and a strong stable spark and you should be good to go. Especially because you had internal work done on your engine already.

There is nothing more frustrating that not believing your engine is reliable. Likewise, there is no better feeling than going to the boat with confidence that it will start and be there for you when you need the engine most.

Best
Jim

[sdemore]

Wait, you guys are financially limited sailors (me included!)? I only came here to improve my social standing by hanging with the well-to-do's...

[ndutton]

Don't discount systems ancillary to the engine (fuel, exhaust, control wiring). You can have a brand new engine that won't start or run if the boat's systems are in poor condition.

• Contaminated fuel - speaks for itself
• Blocked exhaust inhibits the engine's ability to breathe
• Control wiring - I could write for days on that subject but for starters unique to Catalina, get rid of the Medallion trailer plugs in the wiring harness (nod to Thatch for mentioning it earlier)

[Ram41662]

Gem, as has been mentioned, the Atomic 4 is more closely related to antique tractor motors, or as I've seen antique Jeep engines, than anything built today. That said, if you're still considering finding a mechanic, I might suggest you look away from the "professional" marine mechanics and contact a couple of antique car clubs or the folks at the Maine Antique Tractor Club for suggestions on mechanics.

A flat head four cylinder, naturally aspirated carbureted gasoline engine is a marvel of simplicity, almost as easy to work on as a 10-speed bicycle. However, if one looks in any town of reasonable size, you will find a bike repair shop, so that means there is market for that service because there are folks that either don't have the time or skill to work on them.

If you change your mind about working on your own, as unlikely as that may seem now, you will find a world of support, sometimes a bit too enthusiastic, but friendly none the less, from the folks here and at Moyer Marine. There is something primally satisfying about taking a "dead" A4, walking through the repair process, and finally firing it up. You also gain the confidence that comes with the knowledge you can keep the lil' beast running on your own for decades.

[Ram41662]

Oh, FYI, I was born in Skowhegan and my sister still lives in Cape Elizabeth. 😀

[edwardc]

Gem,

I just sent you a PM. Check your messages.

[GEM555]

Ok, you guys talked me into it.

I am going to try for the electronic ignition with proper new coil someone suggested. "You...DO know we just got that engine running?" was all my wife said. Well, she also said "Just be sure you have your health insurance card with you".

As for gas, when we got the boat, I had the tank emptied and a spin-on canister-type fuel filter installed.

I'll let everyone know what happens.

[sastanley]

GEM, a BIG problem with the C-30 is the fuel fill location. Up there on the side deck, rain water rolls over the fuel fill all the time on its way to the scuppers under the track. A bad o-ring easily allows rain water into the tank. Please confirm this is sealed and not letting water in. A new o-ring is a few dollars. (my fuel fill was cross threaded..I discovered that my new o-ring was not even seating on the deck part of the fitting.)

It might be a few big things, or a few small things..we just need to work thru them one at a time. Each fix will give you more confidence & faith in the motor, or maybe even a new skill to troubleshoot and fix the next thing. I can guarantee you I knew ZERO about this motor when I got my C-30 almost ten years ago. More veteran members will attest to my flailing the first few months..

P.S.> 1984 was one of the last years you could get an A-4 in a C-30 (or any boat). Because of the boat's design, (and prohibitive cost aside) none of the diesel options fit very well, and come with their own compromises. The C-30 galley was designed for the compact A-4...We are actually pretty lucky that the engine is where it is...we have good access to most parts..I think the only ones luckier might be Tartan owners that have a box over the A-4 behind the mast.

[thatch]

Baby Steps

Gem, Even the most seasoned mechanics on this forum didn't learn the idiosyncrasies of the A4 overnight. Even if you never turn the wrenches on your engine yourself, reading the threads concerning the various systems will at least put you in a better position to discuss things when you do find the right mechanic. By the way, there are numerous threads related to A4 powered Catalina 30s, and the problems that are particular to that combination. As Shawn pointed out, because of the location of the fuel fill, it is extremely important that the cap is watertight. Fortunately engine access to us C-30 owners is about as good as it gets. As you have seen, based on the responces, there are a bunch of guys willing and able to help you through the learning process. Things as seemingly simple as a proper starting routine can go a long way in making an A4 a good experience rather than a bad one.
Tom