old boat..new owner..needs tlc..might as well start a thread about it and its A4

[keelcooler]

Shawn,
Next time you go south on 4 to solomons you can drop the alternator off at R&R Auto Electric in upper marlboro. They do good work and know how to spell marine. I have used them for years,410 741 1988.

[sastanley]

keel cooler, thanks. That is about 45 minutes north of the boat, but I will definitely tuck that one away.

There is a Mennonite shop in the area, Wenger's, and all the local auto/machine shops have told me to take it directly there, and let them fix me up. I took a starter to them once, and apparently their alternator guy is equally good.

me at local auto machine shop - "Hi, I have a couple of old alternators here from a boat engine, I am hoping you can help me with them."
machine shop guy - "Yup, I sure can...take them right up to Wenger's up there on Bishop Road".
me - "OK, thanks, I am familiar with them, thought I'd check in here first since I work down the street."
him - "Thanks, I appreciate that, but you'll have much better luck up there at Wenger's."

I would equate this shop to the local shops lat64 & others refer to in town with one-eyed, blind dogs, etc., except the Mennonites are more like the Amish than old city machine shop types. Some of these people don't drive cars or have electricity in their house, but they know electric motors/starters/alternators, etc..

I'll be taking my two alternators up there for a look-see this afternoon.

[sastanley]

update - boat splashed!

The boat went in the water today! FINALLY!

And, the engine ran! Not 100% but it ran!

Here is a quick update on the recent happenings.
Oh, I found that voltage adjustable regulator for the 35A Motorola on the Internet for $23. It arrived today!

Ok, back to the boat.

Last Monday get to the boat...smell fuel..open hatches. Carry on with projects.

Last Tuesday - Climb up into the cockpit..smell fuel with the hatchboards closed...oh darn (that isn't really what I said) - this is not good. Check engine..no leaks...check fuel lines..no leak...check tank..what's this little crusty thing on the bottom of the tank (wipe..) oh darn (not what I said) again...fuel!!!!

So, I had to replace the fuel tank. Fortunately, it was still on the hard. We got all but about 2-3 gallons pumped out using the nifty squeeze bulb, and then pumped the rest out of the bilge, and I replaced the tank this weekend. Hopefully that is the last of the engine saga for now. The only thing left that is original is the coil, and I have a spare one of those!

I am so good I amaze myself sometimes. Well, actually Don is good, because I set the idle screw and the distributor timing to his recommendations over the winter and the damn engine ran really well. I was by myself getting to the dock today, so I couldn't really tune it under way, but back at the dock I spun the idle screw and the distributor while tied up, and their settings were fine. I have a slight hesitation on throttle up, but I'll investigate that later. With a clean prop and clean bottom, she ghosts along at just above idle. I need to get the tach installed this week & the electric to the new instruments so I know what my RPMs are & how fast I am going. I am a little afraid to run her too hard, so I'll probably baby it on our cruise.

The only thing I here is some valves slapping, and a noisy accessory drive..right now no leaks!

Yahoo!!!

[ne57301]

Wohoo!!! Congrats Shawn!!

We went in today too! It's just amazing how much smoother an A4 is than an A3. So far so good, we ran about 2 hours around 1500 RPMs, good power, good oil pressure, couldn't get temp up to 130 so I'm not sure what's going on there. Of course the water here is about 45 so that might have something to so with it, I might take out the restrictor valve in the bypass, too. No leaks!

I didn't retorque but I will. I did change the oil, with the Moyer Oil Change Kit it took about 10 minutes.

Ahhh, what a stress relief.
Randy

[rigspelt]

Wonderful Shawn! Well done.

[sastanley]

The new thermostat setup & bypass worked great here...The motor ran between 140 - 160. The water temp here is in the mid-50's. My tach isn't hooked up yet, & neither are my instruments, but at light cruise (no bow/stern wave, I'd estimate 4 knots) it was 140. When I gave it a little gas and had a stern wave (~5 knots), she jumped to 160 right away. I also found when it was cold this past fall heading for haulout, I could not get the temp up either, but no problem yesterday. I was by myself so I didn't really want to mess with it. I'll have plenty of time for that with our 35 miles runs coming up on the cruise.

I'd still like more oil pressure..at idle she is about 20 PSI...which is more than it had last year (barely above zero). Under way, I am seeing 18-20 right now, and with more RPM the pressure actually drops a little bit, maybe to 16-17. I seem to recall others here with that issue, so I'll have to go dig around.

Now let's hope for good weather next week heading to Baltimore!

edit - also...the adjustable regulator for the Motorola alternator showed up yesterday too...I am going to bolt that on today. It has a tiny little adjustment in it for voltage adjustment. Nice unit! I'll snap some pics.

[P30_889]

Congrats on the running engine

Shawn,
Thanks for the offer of assistance earlier. I finally stopped being so selfish and read other people's posts just to catch up. If you ever find your way up Annapolis way, give a shout. I hope to spend some time this week debugging my carry over problems from the valve job of my engine.

David

[sastanley]

pic

Here is a pic from yesterday with the boat in the slip. Everything except the hull needs a lot of cleaning..lots of mildew. Bleach in a spray bottle seems to provide the greatest success.

I need to take a pic of the motor all assembled and in running order as well, right now, my wife has the setees loaded up with cleaning supplies...she's been down in there that last two evenings and has the inside of the boat in pretty good order.

[Mark S]

Shawn,

Looks great! Give us a picture of the engine. What a nice looking location in which to have a slip. I'm envious. At the moment, we are on a temporary in Salem Harbor to which we row and it's a mighty long haul if the wind is against us. Right now I can't imagine anything nicer than an idyllic wooded inlet with a pier from which I can simply step aboard, start the A4, and glide away.

Congrats!

Mark

[sastanley]

It is pretty nice...thanks. It is about a 10 minute motor down to Solomons harbor from the slip. I decided to update my avatar with that shot..yesterday there was a blue heron walking along the shoreline across the creek near the downed tree...a great diversion from all the cleaning my wife & I have been doing.

The guy that owns the house where the boat is has known my Dad for 30+ years & did me the favor of offering me the slip when boat ownership changed.

He actually drug my Dad & the boat off a sandbar back in the 70's. The boat was so new that there was no VHF on board yet to call anyone, so my Dad & his buddies drank all the beer and went to sleep to wait until the tide came up, when the property owner came out to find him, heh-heh!

I will try to snap a pic of the engine today, since this is technically the A-4 forum. I want to install the tach & the new adjustable regulator today also, so I'll have the engine box opened up and can take some updated pics.

[sastanley]

well..back to the alternator shop. I installed the new adjustable regulator and the alternator stopped charging when me & my buddy went to test it.

I have no way to test it, & the Mennonites still have my old alternator. Here is a pic of the setup. I originally found the red wire connected under the diode plate attachment stud on the right side. I moved it out to the hot stud after referencing another thread here I'd printed and taken with me, but neither made any difference..The voltmeter isn't registering anything. We even took the isolator back out and hooked the alternator output directly to the battery, and tried the old regulator again. At least then the meter registered 12.3 volts, which matched the battery voltage with the blower running.

Edit - As usual operator error. When we took the plate off we must have dropped the isolating bushing on the ground post into the bilge. My local alt. guys hooked me up & adjusted the output to my specifications (14.8v) to get 14.1v at the battery. The put the old OEM regulator onto the other alt, so I have a spare too.

[sastanley]

Update! Engine in use for a full week & results

Whew...OK..here is a quick update.

Most of you following this topic probably figured out I was rushing here the last month or so to get the boat ready for a week long cruise.

I am happy to report that we made it back to and from the homeport slip under our own power 99% of the way. The other 1% I'll explain later

Talk about a shakedown cruise. On the first day, the engine purred along beautifully for 75 minutes and proceeded to shut down as if starved for fuel. This led me to troubleshoot the fuel system for most of the week. I ended up removing the squeezy bulb, & cheap 'polishing' filter I'd installed, & moving the Racor filter down the bulkhead to give the mechanical fuel pump an easier pull from the tank. I believe all of these attempts were now unnecessary as none produced a longer running time than 60-90 minutes.

What I believe to be the ultimate fix, is a new coil! When we had a chance in the middle of the cruise, I installed the spare coil in the engine bay, within reach of the wire from the distributor and extended the various wires running to the coil posts to reach from other components just in case. (wiring harness, starter, etc.) Low and behold, out we go in light breeze and the motor runs great at 1,500 RPM (also got the tach installed on the cruise ) for about 65 minutes, and sputters to a stop. In the past, the engine would restart after quitting for increasingly short intervals (5 minutes, 2 minutes, 30 seconds & then would cease to start) - Earlier in the week after it quit, I pulled the wire from the distributor while cranking and got spark, and restarted, but only for a few minutes. I should have been more observant during subsequent shutdowns, but I was too busy getting sails back up to avoid drifting into sandbars. (We did successfully sail into the raft twice, much to my wife's surprise.)

Anyway, this time I immediately switched the coil (pre-lengthening the wires was key to making this a 3 minute job while sailing) - the engine immediately fired and ran for another hour before raising full sail in the freshening breeze. Good thing I picked up a coil (epoxy filled Flamethrower) a few weeks ago and took it with me. It is the only part I did not replace over the winter. I am pretty sure the failing coil was original, it is a Delco-Remy & the bracket is pretty much seized to the rear of the engine.

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you look at it), we had enough wind after the coil switch that we only used it in 5-45 minute chunks the remainder of the cruise, however, it idled smoother and seemed to run a little better & never showed any inclination that it might cease running.

Once I figure out how to post up a video on YouTube, I'll post one I took in the middle of the week (just before the repeated failures and first sail into the raft) with it running pretty hard, no tach yet though, but probably close to 2,000 RPM if I had to guess. It sounded OK, but I heard a couple of loud pops & sputters during this time, and think I might have been floating a valve or something. I'll see if it is audible on the video. Since then (and getting the tach hooked up) I've been careful not to run it over 1,500 RPM. She seems happier there, but it would be nice to get it reliable enough to run harder if I needed it. I'll save that testing for a nice quiet day close to home.

edit - Here is the timeline of events, hopefully in chronological order as I jumped around a bit in my story-telling:

Saturday - motor for 60 minutes, engine dies, sails up..Sail all day to Harness Creek (South River)..motor for 15 minutes into raft..Run engine later for 15 minutes, no problem.

Sunday - Motor out for 30 minutes, sails up, motor off. Sail for a while trying to make Baltimore...25 knots on our nose, drop sails, motor in for 25 minutes into Annapolis with rest of group, no problems on this day (whew, weather was not cooperative, glad the motor was for the short time I used it.)

Monday - Motor for 15 minutes, sails up, motor off. Sail all day, motor on..run hard into wind up channel of Wye River. Runs for ~50 minutes & dies..restarts for 2 mins, dies..restarts for 15 seconds, dies...check for spark, see spark, but will only run for 10-15 seconds..Proximity to land dictates raising of sails...sail into raft. Engine restarts at raft, runs for 5 minutes, no problem.

Tuesday - Motor sail for 75 minutes in light breeze. Engine dies just as we drop sails to enter St. Michael's harbor. Sail back up, sail into raft. Ignore motor, enjoy beverage, plan to work on motor in marina tomorrow.

Wednesday - While shopping for fuel line parts & explaining ordeal old guy at prop shop suspects coil, (with three dogs running the place, Russ!). Return to boat and decide to mount spare coil, extend wires, but still remove Fram polish filter & squeezy bulb...Runs OK in marina slip for a minute or so. Go to dinner with friends.

Thursday - Fires up, leave slip, dies, drift into mud. Towed to fuel dock, turn fuel supply back on (see 1% below), fires up, buy fuel, head out. Runs for 60 minutes at 1,400 RPM, dies. Switch over coil, starts up, runs for 60 additional minutes prior to raising sails. Sail remainder of day to Oxford. Drop sails outside Town Creek, motor runs fine into raft (15 minutes, max.)

Friday - Sit on hook, no motor! (worked on sails that ripped on Thursday & head that had a leaky joker valve!)

Saturday - Sail to Little Choptank, sail repairs hold. Engine runs for 90 minutes leaving Oxford (raised sails, motor off), & 5 minutes arriving in Hudson Creek.

Sunday - Motor sail for 60 minutes, engine runs great at 1,500 RPM. Motor off, sail all day..Run engine into home port for 15 minutes, no problems. See Blue Angels as we sail into Patuxent River!

Ok, so not so quick an update. but there you go. Oh, I sprung a little leak in the grease cup attachment too, which dripped water from about Wednesday on, so I have something to call Ken about as well - how often are you supposed to twist that thing?

Oh, the 1% of not-under-our-own-power was when I forgot to open the fuel tank shutoff after removing all the extra stuff (bulb/filter) from the line the day before. It started up, backed us out of the slip, and died. A buddy on the cruise towed us to the fuel dock (we had drifted into shallow water with no wind and bumped the bottom outside the marina slip) and once tied up to the fuel dock I proceeded with troubleshooting. A few minutes into it I exclaimed to my wife, "I bet some dummy (me) forgot to open the fuel line after all that work we did yesterday", & sure enough that proved the initial culprit. About 15 seconds of cranking primed the line and off we went. I even bought 4 gallons of fuel from the marina since they let me tie up for 20 minutes to figure out my issue. - Incidentally, the fuel starved die-off sounded eerily similar to the coil die off..I would expect a coil failure to simply sound like someone cut off the ignition switch, which is primarily why I kept troubleshooting fuel all week, the system I'd done the most work on over the winter.

[sastanley]

pics of engine

I snagged this frame (the 2nd one!) out of the MOV file my camera made when I thought it was running well and decided to make a movie. It just so happens that during my 45 second video, she made a large popping sound near the end. I think it may have floated a valve?? but I dunno for sure. Also, since I am an amateur, I couldn't keep my mouth shut or hold the camera still and then immediately put the camera down to start investigating the noise. About 10 minutes later, she quit. This is the hardest I had the engine running (no tach yet), but I suspect in the 2,000 RPM range. I'll get more pics after the additional work I did during the week too.

So, if the coil was getting hot and weakening, could that cause a misfire and then a valve slap problem at 2,000+ RPM? Am I using the right terms?

edit - so I found a pic from earlier in this thread..can you believe this is what we started with last fall?

[sastanley]

video

OK, let's try this. Now that I think I have figured this out, I'll try to get a better video in the future with better audio, etc.

As I listen to it a couple of times, I also hope I have it running better now than it was in this video..I can hear it missing a little bit after a listen or two.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9TC57vwHB0

[keelcooler]

You lying sack of bilge scum,no way that's the same motor.That engine is from Don's stable and you paid extra so he wouldn't rat you out.Anyway good job,that's the way to do it.Your dad is smiling with approval and by the way,he wants his boat back.