Leaking head under alternator bracket

[DCHunt]

I have an original late model Atomic 4 in my 1972 Pearson 36. It is raw water cooled and has always been in Lake Erie.

I noted the other day that when the engine is run at close to full throttle I start to see some water running out from under the alternator bracket and flowing into the 3rd plug back from the front of the engine where it pools in the cavity around the plug then bubbles and evaporates. If I slow the engine down, the water will stop flowing and I can run the engine so it pushes the boat at 2 or 3 knots without seeing noticeable water coming out from under the bracket. I can't tell if the water under the bracket is originating from the middle head stud or the outside head stud (closest to the alternator itself).

If I accelerate the engine and run it for a while the water returns, slowing it down seems to stop the leak. The engine idles smoothly and I don't see any white smoke coming out the exhaust.

I grabbed this picture of an Atomic 4 from the Web and have indicated with an arrow where the leak appears to be coming from. (see attached) The engine pictured is not mine but it allows me to show you where the leak seems to be.

What is the best way to fix this? Can I remove the nuts that hold the alternator bracket on then somehow remove the studs and then what should be used to seal it?

Once the nut on top of the alternator bracket is removed and the bracket itself removed, is there another nut attached to the stud that is underneath the bracket and that is how I remove the stud?

What is the right tool to remove the stud?

I have done normal maintenance on the engine in the past but never done anything with the head nuts and studs.

Thanks for any help,

Dan

[CalebD]

We had a similar issue (water on head from alt. bracket) that seems to ultimately have been solved by replacing the head gaskets(2).
There is a Permatex gasket goop (#3 I think) that can be used around the studs before the head goes back on.

[Mo]

First try to remove the stud and put permatex in with the new one. Remove the nuts on the bracket, sometimes the studs will come out at the same time.

IF the stud doesn't back out with the nut,pull off the bracket and go to a Fastener shop (Home depot won't do) . Find two thinner nuts and put them on Locking them against each other. Put a narrow wrench on the lower one and start turning it out. The upper nut stops the lower one from turning off the stud and the stud should start turning out.

On occasion, actually more often around the Tstat housing, the stud is sort of corroded in solid. If it doesn't come right away use a good penetrating oil down around the stud/head and apply daily for a couple of days....then try again.

I would caution against any hard smacking with a hammer on the stud...it may break away rust and carbon but may also cause a crack in the area where the stud enters the block....that has never happened to me but I saw pics here once where I figured that's how the cracks occurred.

Wait for more replies because what you have going on there is a very common issue...and fixable.

[Al Schober]

The right tool for removing studs is #CG 500 from Snap-on. It's rather pricey, but does the job and doesn't mess up the studs. It's one of those purchases where the quality of the tool persists long after the pain of the purchase price wears off.

[DCHunt]

Thanks Mo and Al. Al, I'll look for that Snapon part. Sounds like patience and penetrating oil is the key to success.

Dan

[BunnyPlanet169]

Before you go in, you might want to check/re torque the head nuts. I'd try a preventative step before I started pulling studs.

Once you start disassembly, things have a way of deteriorating. I'd be especially cautious to only do as much as your willing to loose the rest of the sailing season. It's running, and you have a manageable problem that you can probably live with till you pull the boat in a few weeks.

[ndutton]

It's interesting no mention has been made that the head has a known history of cracking in that exact area. I completely agree with trying other remedies first and hope they resolve the problem but at the same time keep an informed eye out for a hairline crack under the lifting bracket.

[CalebD]

I think it is interesting that up until Neil's post we have been calling it the alternator bracket rather than lifting bracket. I doubt that the alternator bracket was designed with lifting the engine in mind but it's location and ease of use made it the method of choice for moving Atomic 4 blocks into place on new boats being built at Islander Yachts and other builders.
The use of the alternator bracket as a means of lifting the engine goes a long way to explain the known history of the head cracking in this area.
I wonder if Neil remembers ever seeing an Atomic 4 lowered into a new hull with the engine supported in a bridle rather than the "lifting bracket"?

[romantic comedy]

My guess is that the bracket was used for lifting at the Universal factory and the boat builders.

If Universal thought it should not be used for lifting, they would not have made that hole.

just a guess

[ndutton]

I wonder if Neil remembers ever seeing an Atomic 4 lowered into a new hull with the engine supported in a bridle rather than the "lifting bracket"?

Oh yeah, I remember and the reply is - - - NEVER! As RC said, the alternator/lifting bracket was always the lifting means. And for what it's worth, I don't recall a single case of a cracked head doing so.

I believe age and a lifetime of salt water through the cooling passages and the resultant corrosion cause thinning of the castings. Lift that old corroded engine out of your old boat by the same lifting point and the off center bracket leverage may be just enough to crack the head. Thatch has a cool bracket innovation that checks the leverage with a three point attachment rather than the stock two point.

[DCHunt]

Before you go in, you might want to check/re torque the head nuts. I'd try a preventative step before I started pulling studs.

Once you start disassembly, things have a way of deteriorating. I'd be especially cautious to only do as much as your willing to loose the rest of the sailing season. It's running, and you have a manageable problem that you can probably live with till you pull the boat in a few weeks.

Jeff, I completely agree with your comment. Usually for me things start to deteriorate while I am just looking at a problem! My boat is at the Buffalo Yacht Club at Point Abino in Lake Erie so we will probably pull it by the end of September.

I have a Sears torque wrench, should I just start tightening all of the head bolts to 30 ft-lb? These nuts have probably not been touched since 1972!

The engine head is in good shape with very little rust. I went out sailing today and if I can believe the cheap RPM meter I have hooked to the #1 spark plug, it looks like the water starts to leak at about 1400 to 1500 RPM. At about 1100 RPM it stops leaking.

I started to put penetrating oil on the nuts holding down the alternator bracket. Should I do the same for all the nuts before trying to re-torque them?

Also, is the alternator bracket held down directly to the head by the two nuts on top of it or after I remove the nuts and the bracket are there additional nuts underneath? It doesn't look like the bracket sits DIRECTLY on the engine head. See the picture I uploaded of the alternator bracket. The liquid on the nuts is the penetrating oil.

Thanks,

Dan
(Pearson 36 - Arriba)

[BunnyPlanet169]

Dan - having had less than great luck with heads myself (so far, hope springs eternal) I'd keep idling till you pull the boat. As others have suggested, you may end up replacing the stud, and torquing on it may make the existing problem worse. Or, it might make the leak stop. But you won't know.... I ended my season in 2013 by attempting to pull the head on the boat - but I was dead in the water anyway, so I had less to loose.

The alternator bracket sits directly on the head and there are no other nuts underneath. Hitting each nut with penetrant is a good idea, but it's more likely to help you if they need to come off. Won't hurt.

[DCHunt]

Thanks, Jeff. I am trying to baby the engine to eek out the last couple days of sailing then will tackle the repair.

dan

[DCHunt]

The right tool for removing studs is #CG 500 from Snap-on. It's rather pricey, but does the job and doesn't mess up the studs. It's one of those purchases where the quality of the tool persists long after the pain of the purchase price wears off.

Al, or others, what is the size of the studs in the engine block? 3/8"-24? I was looking for stud pullers that were a little less expensive and easier to obtain than the Snap-on.

dan

[romantic comedy]

Dan, where are you. In the us, snap on is very easy to get. Just walk into any auto repair shop and ask when Mr snap on comes by. I would often see t he truck, follow him to a stop, then get the tool.

However, the tools are priced like gold. You might try Sears Craftsman too.