Another thought on coolant flow

[Dave Neptune]

??

Wow Niel, I would have expected 8~10 amps. Thats less than a small bilge pump and far less than the ventilation blower. At 2 amps that would equate to around 1/30th of a HP which is the same as many of the coolant pumps I use at work. It should be plenty of circulation and BTW that is the same "Teel" pump I use for my acid flushing every 4~5 years. I spoke to Tom about it when we met at the races and he seemed to think the reliability of the pump was good. It was rated for a thousand hours I think.

Is the pump portion replaceable or does it require a complete replacement of the assembly if the pump fails?

Dave Neptune

[thatch]

"Better late than never?"

Sorry I'm so late getting on board with this discussion. I have made a few notes on the questions raised and will try to address all of them, but I'm sure I'll miss some so please ask again. The conversion process began with a long conversation with Tom Stevens at Indigo who felt that the secret to success using the "Johnson" circulation pump was to enlarge the hoses and fittings as much as possible and to clean the block and manifold as well as reasonably possible. The inlet and outlet ports on the electric pump are 3/4" so those hose runs are that size. The rest of the hoses are 5/8" except for the block bypass hose which remains at 1/2". Several months ago I did some "driveway" pump flow tests on 3 Oberdofer pumps and found that by simply changing from the stock machined fittings to plumbing style fittings, flow increased considerably. The I.D. of the machined fittings is about 3/8" compared to the plumbing style which measured at over 7/16" in all of the fittings I checked. The "sweep" of the elbows also probably improved coolant flow.
Hose routing on my A4 comes from my education of converting several automotive engines to marine use. The principal was always to run the cooling water into the lowest point and out at the higest place possible. In the case of the A4 manifold and the ability to run it at an angle of up to 15 degrees, filling it from the low end meant reversing the factory setup. As Neil pointed out, this should insure keeping it full. There may be a side benefit of this approach in that the coolant is attacking the hottest part of the manifold where the exhaust from all 4 cylinders is flowing rather than the exhaust of cylinder #1. The coolant cap is as high as I could mount it and in the case of a Cat 30 puts it slightly above the coolant level in the block. I actually replaced the pressure spring in the cap with one that holds only about 1 pound of pressure, my thinking on this being that I wanted to reduce the pressure on the coolant passages as much as possibly. I seems to be working well so far.
I hope this answers some of the questions, and as I said before please ask again.
Tom
P.S. Neil, thanks again

[Administrator]

But Bill, this IS a design review meeting/forum. Tom's idea needs to tested some more and I intend to do just that on my engine. Hanley

I surely agree, Hanley. It's a fascinating idea.

I track somewhere around twenty different forums, many of them associated with amateur (ham) radio, which is a "hobby" fiercely dedicated to experimentation and innovation. This one is by far the most intellectually stimulating and filled with fresh thinking. Witness this week alone, where the timing mark device and this idea bubbled up within days of each other. Separately, there was a picture of the Tom Stevens belt tensioning attachment, an all but free add-on which is living proof that the Universal folks certainly didn't think of everything.

Bill

[thatch]

Pump Info

Dave N,
The Johnson pump is just a circulation pump which probably explains the low current draw and long life expectancy since there are no actual rubbing parts internally, except for the motor brushes. The pump is a "non serviceable" unit so it would have to be replaced upon failure. At $175.00 I will not be carrying a spare, just hoses to route around the problem temporarilly.
Tom

[ndutton]

Re: forums

This one is by far the most intellectually stimulating and filled with fresh thinking. Witness this week alone, where the timing mark device and this idea bubbled up within days of each other.

I absolutely agree with that assessment of this group and it's the peeps that make it so.

The timing device and coolant flow discussions popped up close to each other only because I had the good fortune of a stimulating visit with Thatch two days ago. No doubt these things have been in development for some time but when he dropped over 100 pictures on me seeking assistance in editing/sizing/posting, I couldn't get them posted fast enough. No reason to hold back with ideas like his.

Look at the people around here (and Tom's only one of several), this is a good place to be.

[Administrator]

Some of the plumbing details escape me. Actually, I have never really grasped all the variations on the theme.

Do the v-drive installs have countercurrent flow, but the direct drives do not?

Bill

[thatch]

"V-drive hose routing"

Bill,
A technical drawing at the back of an old A4 parts catalog seems to indicate that the V-drive models are plumbed the same as the direct models, which means that the exiting water is going out at the closed end of the manifold or similar to what I've done. It is my assumption that Universal ran the hoses the way they did to keep runs as short as possible and that they assummed that an anti-siphon riser would serve to keep the manifold passages full.
Tom

[msauntry]

Plumbing the heat exchanger?

Can anyone explain why my heat exchanger says the seawater inlet is the one closest to the resevoir cap? I didn't notice this note in the installation instructions until after I routed the hoses the opposite way (nearest to cap=sea water exit to exhaust elbow).

The unit is from Indigo and appears similar to the blue one Thatch has. I can't see how the water flow direction could affect performance here. I switched it to the recommended way and saw no performance difference. I'd like to switch it back, since my hose runs are better the other way...

Anyone got a theory?

[ArtJ]

I surely agree, Hanley. It's a fascinating idea.

I track somewhere around twenty different forums, many of them associated with amateur (ham) radio, which is a "hobby" fiercely dedicated to experimentation and innovation. This one is by far the most intellectually stimulating and filled with fresh thinking. Witness this week alone, where the timing mark device and this idea bubbled up within days of each other. Separately, there was a picture of the Tom Stevens belt tensioning attachment, an all but free add-on which is living proof that the Universal folks certainly didn't think of everything.

Bill

FYI Tom Stevens of Indigo has had the belt tension for a number of years as part of his FWC/ Alternator system,
but only recently advertised it as a separate product.

Regards

[ndutton]

FYI Tom Stevens of Indigo has had the belt tension for a number of years as part of his FWC/ Alternator system,

Note that the Indigo belt tensioner has gone through a redesign.

Roadnsky posted a pic of the original Indigo on his alternator, the Indigo site has the current one.
Here's Roadnsky's original Indigo tensioner

http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3116&stc=1&d=1291425758

And the modified Indigo on their website

http://www.atomic4.com/ADJ.html

Note the credit below the price box. The "Anonymous Customer" came from here!

[ArtJ]

You are right Neil. I have the original version which I received from Indigo
last fall as part of a alternator upgrade kit. It is quite different from the
new version, which you mentioned being designed by Roadnsky.

I wish I had the newer version!

Regards to all involved

[ndutton]

Correction:

I did not mean to suggest Roadnsky was involved in the redesign. His inclusion in my post was only to credit the photo of the original Indigo tensioner.

[ArtJ]

Correction:

I did not mean to suggest Roadnsky was involved in the redesign. His inclusion in my post was only to credit the photo of the original Indigo tensioner.

"Note the credit below the price box. The "Anonymous Customer" came from here!"

My curiosity is still up who was the Customer you mention??

[ArtJ]

Correction:

I did not mean to suggest Roadnsky was involved in the redesign. His inclusion in my post was only to credit the photo of the original Indigo tensioner.

"Note the credit below the price box. The "Anonymous Customer" came from here!"

My curiosity is still up who was the Customer you mention??

[ndutton]

"Note the credit below the price box. The "Anonymous Customer" came from here!"

My curiosity is still up who was the Customer you mention??

Sorry, he can reveal himself if he chooses, it's not really my place. I'm not trying to be mysterious or smarmy, just respectful. In fact, I've probably said too much already.

My interest in pointing it out was to once again illustrate the quality of this forum and its contributors.