head gasket job, remove all studs and reseal?

[CamaroMan]

Hi guys, busy doing a head gasket change among others. All but one of the studs came out during removal. Is it better to leave them in as is?

Since the rust that jams the head on comes thru threads was wondering what u guys do?

I'm sure some are bound to break off.. Otherwise maybe some Permatex #1 under bolt heads and grease the studs?



Tough choice considering the amount of work required if one or more breaks off in the block :0

[roadnsky]

DO YOU HAVE THE MMI MANUAL???
We have asked this of you numerous times now.
Most of your questions on this forum are answered in the manual.

It is required reading.

[CamaroMan]

Im not sure if the manual I have (108 of) is the mmi one. Probably not since either I missed the part on studs or it's not there.

Mind sharing some technical feedback related to the question?

Fyi caps is considered shouting


Anyone else?

[roadnsky]

Im not sure if the manual I have (108 of) is the mmi one. Probably not since either I missed the part on studs or it's not there.

Fyi caps is considered shouting

No it's obvious to many of us here that you do NOT have the manual.

Sorry for the tone but you continue to ignore good advice from this forum over and over.
Including earlier advice to get the MMI Manual and where to get it.
So, once again, here's some advice...

Get THIS one ...

[CamaroMan]

thanks - for a once off job Im not sure ill be paying the $55 just yet. Perhaps in the future..

Anyways ive posted my q up on 2 other forums. Hopefully they can shed better light. For a new comer this is quite disappointing -

to be honest (and not rude) the simplicity of typing a simple answer wd be much more appreciated. Perhaps its me but I dont get the attitude of (we wont help u unless u buy/read the manual).

What if I had done that and asked as well? Millions of forums are filled with questions - thats what theyre there for..

Frankly - im a little disappointed. I guess I wont bother continuing this thread - ill try elsewhere.

Ive helped thousands of ppl over and over with questions that are in "the manual". I think u need to reconsider your approach (and those who liked your response).. I just think its a little unfriendly.


"Sorry for the tone but you continue to ignore good advice from this forum over and over." - I find that quite remarkable as I joined last week. Quite a statement to make based on (what, 4 threads maybe?).



Regards -

[tenders]

thanks - for a once off job Im not sure ill be paying the $55 just yet. Perhaps in the future..

Perhaps its me but I dont get the attitude of (we wont help u unless u buy/read the manual).

"Sorry for the tone but you continue to ignore good advice from this forum over and over." - I find that quite remarkable as I joined last week. Quite a statement to make based on (what, 4 threads maybe?).

Five threads, plus some bad advice and questions on very old threads, plus some good photos. Plus petulance. Kind of an odd mix.



The forum works best for those of a mind to have a long-term relationship with their trusty A4. The regulars have been delighted to answer thousands of questions from those who are still developing those relationships from “rusty” to “trusty.”

How can $55 be a big commitment for a ton of FAQ material laser-guided to apply to the issues surrounding this specific engine, and which will prevent a whole lot of one-off jobs from becoming do-overs? You should expect to get $55 of enjoyment out of reading the Moyer Manual in an evening sitting on your sofa. I know I did.

[sastanley]

CamaroMan, I debated making this post, but I have decided I will to try to explain what you see as disappointment and unfriendly.

We are not bashing you directly, or trying to avoid giving you readily available information, or forcing you to spend money. My other nickname should be "CivicMan" as I've rebuilt a couple Honda engines and have done an engine swap in my own garage. As I am sure you know, despite the wealth of info on the internet and various forums, there is no substitute for a "factory manual". I would not have dared to get into the innards of those motors without the manual. My swap was a Japanese spec 1991 ZC motor, which was a mix of Integra bottom end and Civic top-end engine parts not built in the US. You can't do this type of work without a manual. I had tons of internet help too, and frankly it gave me the confidence to try the swap, but I still had a Honda manual on the bench next to me.

The MMI manual is as close as it gets since one otherwise does not exist for the Atomic4.

I personally think that if you are interested in helping out some people with Atomic4's in their boats (and making a few $$ as their mechanic), you would likely look like a rock star pulling out the MMI Manual when you step on their boat. It is the closest thing there is to an A4 bible.

The point is, we aren't withholding info, you are a newbie to the A4 and IMO, the manual will enlighten you.

[ndutton]

CamaroMan, I think I understand the engine under repair is not yours and further that you do not own an Atomic 4. If correct it begs the question, are you trying to help out an Atomic 4 owner as many of us have or is this an engine repair business enterprise?

The history of this forum, at least as long as I've been involved, is to be exceedingly generous with owners trying to learn about their engines and hopefully develop them into capable mechanics so they no longer have to rely on professional mechanics of questionable skill (sad but true). The advice always starts with the MMI manual and we never get pushback on it. It's an excellent resource for their future repairs and once they have one they quickly realize its value.

On the other hand, the forum has not been a resource for professional mechanics. As they charge professional rates for their services it's expected they are experts at their trade but unfortunately this is rarely the case. Nearly all of the professional mechanic stories we get on the forum are horrific.

What it boils down to is we are a bunch of sailboat owners with a common bond of a flathead gasoline engine just trying to help each other out. Some of us are newbies, some are very experienced and everything in between. The only enterprise here is the honorable company that hosts the forum and we encourage all who benefit from the forum to support the host at every opportunity.

I hope this helps with understanding. I'll remind you that I asked a question in the first paragraph.

[sastanley]

Thanks, Neil. You are way better at explaining it, or more PC, or something than I am!

[sdemore]

CamaroMan, 2 cents on the forum from a fairly new user. I joined last year when I picked up a project boat with a motor in pieces in boxes. The first recommendation I got on here was to buy a manual. I did and found that it answered 90+% of my questions and made sure I did things right, taking the "boat" route instead of my normal "Harley" route.

When I did come up with a question that wasn't in the book or something that I couldn't understand, the people on this forum were phenomenal in getting me straight. This is a great place to get help, but the expectation is that you are willing to help yourself as well. Get a book, read a little (cover-to-cover can be done in an hour or two), and develop an understanding. It isn't rudeness by these folks, it is an expectation that you aren't just a freeloader; you're willing to do a little of your own work.

The manual has two sections with several chapters in each. The first section covers the "theory of operation" for the various components. Read that and you'll understand the engine and transmission (reversing gear). The second section covers the technical how-to's" and give the specific answers to your questions.

Boats are a fairly expensive investment. If you aren't willing to invest $55 in her, perhaps a cheaper hobby would be more appropriate. I don't say this as one of the "rude" experts, I just got my first boat into the water and have only had the sails up the mast one time now. I too am a newbie, but I can confirm, if you treat these people with respect, they will help more than you can imagine.

Good luck,
Steve

[JOHN COOKSON]

CamaroMan
You have made some serious mistakes.

First: As noted trying to repair a cracked head is like putting lipstick on a pig. Or the equivalent of "polishing a turd". It won't last very long if it even if it works at all.

Second: You cannot plug a cracked head with some kind of sealant goop in the coolant. An automobile engines is a closed system and the coolant and sealant is pumped round and round. In a RWC engine water in pumped from outside the boat, through the engine, and then back outside the boat. The RWC open system would flush the sealant out of the engine pronto.

Third: How would you get the sealant into the engine? There is no radiator cap to open.

I feel the best course of action is for you to realize you are in over your head bail out and quit this project now.

TRUE GRIT

What would be the reason for removing or not removing the studs from the block?

[Wrsteinesq]

Camero Man: I’m sorry you feel unwelcome. This is a pretty welcoming forum, but there are some ‘cultural norms’ to be observed. As Neil noted, this forum is mostly populated by sailboat owners. No slight to our Brethren of The Dark Side, but sailors tend to be an independent lot. “Independent’ in this sense means, responsible for yourself. And that in turn means, doing whatever is reasonable to help yourself, before turning to others to save your bacon. I wouldn’t want to push the analogy too far, but this kerfuffle puts me in mind of the Sea Nymph story being reported seemingly everywhere. No one has a problem with rescuing folks who got into trouble pursuing an enterprise with known risks, IF the rescuees first did whatever is reasonable to help themselves before calling on others. It’s when they don’t do that, but instead do something maybe ill-advised or maybe even reckless, without bothering to first inform themselves, that the folks who get called on to bail them out, get resentful.

At least in a forum you may get a pass on the first time or so that happens. Maybe I’ve done that myself a time or two. But when it’s pointed out but nonetheless repeated, and maybe even smells a little defiant, it gets a little more troubling. It seems especially ungracious when done on a forum supported by the author of the manual in question, who probably isn’t getting rich off the sales anyway, but is mostly trying to share a wealth of knowledge. Please remember, I don’t think anybody you’ve asked to help you is getting paid to respond to you. They’re doing it out of kindness and a sense of community. So respectfully, if you’d ask something of the community, please respect its norms. Right now what I’m hearing from you is, I’d ask all of you to give of your time and advice so I don’t have to bother educating myself, even when you tell me exactly how to do just that. Right now I’d guess that more than a handful of folks have collectively spent more time and effort responding to you, than you would have spent yourself reading the manual first.

Perhaps from this perspective you may better understand the responses you’ve seen. In any event, good luck in your project.

[CamaroMan]

well here she is firing up and running - added a fraction of advance after this for a tiny bit more pep and a 1/4 turn in in carb-

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/_QmcjO6pNQo[/YOUTUBE]

[ndutton]

Do you know where the timing is set relative to TDC, either before or after you added the fraction of advance? How many head gaskets did you use?

Considering the path this project has taken (complete ignition replacement, gunked up carburetor, OPSS wiring issues, suspected blown head gasket and finally stuck valves), having it running must feel pretty good.