NINA's A4 Overhaul

[mpleahy]

NINA is a 27T #604 and her late model A4 is stuck due to salty fresh water flooding. The engine worked beautifully in 2008. NINA's mooring got caught by an ice flow the following winter and she fetched up about a 1/2 mile off shore of Whiting Bay, Maine where she sat too long unattended. Ice and snow built up and flooded around the cockpit seats and when I finally got to her the engine was 3/4 submerged. I pumped her out and had her moved to shore. The engine still turned at this point so I drained the oil and poured in MMO and gave her a few turns by hand. She has sat for 3 years now and the engine won't turn. (Back Story- NINA was the jilted lover, I moved away with my new wife and now we are back and all are ready for a "sister wife.")

NINA is now resting at home by the barn. Her engine is in the barn and I'm gearing up for an overhaul. I have the Moyer manual, a mechanically experienced neighbor with lots of tools, a guy further down the road who builds race cars and does his own machining, this forum, a little money, not a lot, a loving wife who wants to sail again, and just enough time and energy to get the boat back in the water next Spring.

I am going to pick at this for the next 2-3 weeks and will have more time as the winter progresses. I am gone all of January (thought this would be a good time to get any machine shop work done) and then I can hit it hard through Feb, Mar, April, and first half of May.

Right now the immediate plan is to remove the head, leaving what studs want to remain. Get the engine to turn again with patience and lubricating oil and assess for further work. I will post pics once the head is off.
Meanwhile, I'll start assessing/rebuilding the alternator and starter, clean the manifold and block removing paint and get the outside ready for a new coat.

If you see me going the wrong way, please tell me. I am also interested in making important upgrades as I go. If anyone has questions or think they can learn from my experience, I'm willing. Thanks for all you all do! -Matt

[mpleahy]

NINA's A4 Overhaul

NINA is a T27 #604 with a late model A4. She has sat for three years after a fresh water flooding. Popped the head this morning with a chisel and pine wedges. Was going to lubricate enough to turn engine but after looking at it I'm inclined to keep disassembling. Looking for any advice and direction and am willing to share my experience. Thanks to all for all you do. -Matt

[mpleahy]

Sorry about the double thread.

I have returned to the original plan of letting things soak and will attempt to unstick things with a little pipe wrench persuasion on the front pulley hub. If I can get just a tiny movement I'll be happy but after 6 hours it won't budge.

If this fails my next step is to drop the pan to get at the guts.

Also- successfully using a double nut technique for stud removal.

[Marian Claire]

The cooling passages look good, much better than mine did. I would go ahead and hit it with some PB blaster and MMO. I do not think it would harm anything. I have only unfrozen one A-4 but it just took a few days and some persuasion. I am familiar with downeast,NC, where is way downeast? Dan S/V Marian Claire

[mpleahy]

Interesting, I thought there was only one downeast. Way downeast is East of Bar Harbor, Maine. I am a few miles away from the most eastern point in the US, Lubec, Maine.

Yes, PB blaster, MMO, patience and light effort to get the juice around the rings.

[Loki9]

Those cooling passages look great, like water might actually flow through them; nothing at all like what I found in my A4.

Tear it down, clean it up, and it will be better than new when you finish.

Keep us posted.

[Laker]

Must be chance that the last time the engine turned it stopped at the point when all the valves are closed , or close to it. If I were in your shoes I would soak the A4 in lube and get it to turn over , then take a compression test. However , if you enjoy tearing down an engine , that one apparently is due ...

[mpleahy]

Thanks for the encouragement!

I finished removing the studs tonight using two nuts tightened against one another, am very proud of this. On two, it looks like a very small sliver of threading from the block sheared off, not sure if this important.

One cylinder doesn't hold a pool of PB Blaster, not sure if this is good or bad.

This engine worked great in 2008 before the flooding and afterward I poured in MMO and turned it by hand before abandoning it. I'm nervous about getting her unstuck and am not sure how hard I should tap and turn. The transmission is in nuetral (I think). Is there anything else I can do to make it turn over? I am spraying the valves and springs too from the side access.

I broke two bolts on the water jacket plate. Are they soft enough for me to extract them freehand with a drill and extractor?

[ILikeRust]

1. Looks to me like you made the right decision to go for the full tear-down.

2. I would use Kroil rather than PB Blaster. I could dig out the article in Machinist's Workshop magazine in which they tested several penetrating oils and found Kroil to be the best commercial product by far. Even better - a 50/50 mix of acetone and automatic transmission fluid (ATF).

3. No extractors! I would carefully drill the remnant of the bolt out, using a bit smaller than the smallest diameter of the hole. Extractors are too easy to snap off in the hole, and then you've got a nice chunk of very hard steel stuck in the hole.

Let us know how it goes!

[Carl-T705]

Don't get discouraged after 6 hours and no progress, I let one of mine soak 8 weeks and still wouldn't turn free. You pulled the head right at the start , that's good. I would clean the goop out from the top of the pistons around the bores so that penetrating oil can seep down around the rings. The old carbon and junk makes a pretty tight seal and will not let the oil soak down and around rings. I think from the looks of it the rear most cylinder is the one needing the most attention. so put the oil to the cylinders and while it's soaking take 220 sand paper and start cleaning up the bores ( cylinder walls) of what you can see. I did this and then used compressed air to blow all the crap out and then re-oiled. After a couple of weeks soaking and adding penetrate to bores I took a block of wood and pecked on each piston. (NOTE, piston pins run front to rear , so peck a time or two on the left side of the piston then the right side of the piston) Not trying to beat it to death but basicly just shock it a tad in the bore. When you hit the piston your not going to see it move but you just want to rattle it to break the seal between the rust and the hold it has. Then go back to the crank shaft and try to turn it back and forth. You are only looking for a 1/8 inch of movement to get the hold broke free. It's kind of messy using compressed air to blow the crap out and the oil and dirt does go everywhere so I did this outside.
You may as well treat the valves to an oil bath as well soaking around the valve seat and on the open ones letting it run down into the guides to free them up. try using a screw driver wedged between the lifter and the valve tip to see which ones are free and which are stuck. Do not beat or pry on the valve heads to free them , this will surely damage break or bend the valve to where it has to be replaced. It's a very slow process and brute force will only cause more damage so go at it slowly. I would also remove the oil pan to make an inspection in there as well, although I doubt anything down there right now is keeping it from turning over.

[mpleahy]

There's movement!!- and the first cylinder is draining now.

Like's Rust- Am I to drill these free hand? Center punch by eye and drill?

I'm a carpenter with an english degree and attention defecit disorder. There's nothing I can or can't do!

[ILikeRust]

Congrats on getting things moving!

Like's Rust- Am I to drill these free hand? Center punch by eye and drill?

Well, there's how I would do it, and then there might be how someone might tell you you're "supposed to" do it. Sometimes those two coincide, sometimes maybe they won't - I dunno.

But anyhow, what has worked for me in the past is to use a good, fresh cobalt drill bit of, say, 1/18" diameter, maybe smaller, and eyeballemetrically get it centered in the broken-off stub of bolt. I use my Milwaukee cordless drill and just be careful not to snap the bit off or go too much off-center or at some crazy angle.

Once I get that 1/8" hole through, it serves as a pilot for a larger bit. I would go with a bit that is just under the root diameter of the bolt, so that you're drilling out the solid body of the bolt, but leaving behind a thin shell of threads, without hitting the threads in the block.

Often, once you get a little ways in doing that, the bolt stub will start to spin and then you can unscrew it with vise-grips - or if not, you'll be left with the thin shell of threads, which you hopefully can pick out with something like an awl or other similar skinny, pointy tool.

If all else fails, you can go with the Moyer water jacket side plate repair kit.

[mpleahy]

Got it...interesting phenomenon with the acetone/trans fluid mixture. In the first three cylinders where I detected slight cylinder movement the sheen on the mixture is ever so slowly swirling clockwise and counterclockwise. In the fourth cylinder, the problem child I suspect, no movement whatsoever. Unfortunately the fourth cylinder is furthest from the front pulley so my effort there is diminished by the time force reaches the fourth cylinder.

All valves/springs are lifting.

[Administrator]

The line of the week

I love this:

I'm a carpenter with an english degree and attention defecit disorder. There's nothing I can or can't do!

Bill

[lat 64]

It takes a village

Hi,
I think the drilling out broken bolts is where you want to get your neighbor involved—the hot-rodder. You can learn much quicker watching him and fetching beers than snapping off drill bits by yourself. But, if you have to go it alone, Ilikerust's post is a good primer for that operation.

Photograph EVERYTHING! as you pull it apart. Bag and label even the most insignificant part. It's surprising how fast you forget where the parts came from.

My brother is going to Maine in a few weeks. Say hi to him.


Russ