Alternatives to Facet

[HalcyonS]

Hi all
maybe is the gas I they sell in los Angeles, but I have had recurrent fuel supply problems and they tend to be the Facet. The sealing gasket on the bottom was all soft and puckered up, suggesting some solvent in the gas which the Facet gasket doesn't like. I buy my Facets from our hosts at Moyer, and have bought several.

The problem recently is the plastic ball-valve locks up with some kind of goop which I assume is precipitating out of the gas, because I've now got 3 fuels filters in line. An ancient Wilcox Crittenden bronze unit with a drain bung, a sierra cannister and a 10 micron polishing filter. I put the Wilcox Crittenden on because of the amount of crud in my old monel 50 gal tank. It turns out this was a smart move. Yesterday I found it had almost a tbsp of pale green dust in it - I take this to be a nickel salt from the tank. So I'm guessing its giving the Sierra cannister 5-10 times more life.

Paddling my 8 ton boat back to moorings with a couple of kayak paddles after being becalmed persuaded me it was time to take action. I shopped around and found an Airtex E8251 (suffix AX as I recall) Its marine, coast guard rated, 2-4 psi, 30 GPH, and a good deal cheaper than the Facet.

I spent my saturday on my knees on the bilge replumbing my fuel lines (again) and hooked up the airtex. Its whisper quiet. I'll report back on any issues, but I'm interested to know if anyone has experience with this pump. If it fails, I may fit a mechanical.

[sastanley]

Uh...I agree..mechanical!!

I love mine..I see no reason to go with a Facet or other brand and add the OPSS, etc., and I've had no trouble with my rebuilt mechanical fuel pump. This seems like a 10 year or longer rebuild item..the only real point of failure as far as I can tell is the robust diaphragm.

I have no experience with the Airtex, so I hope you report back. Diversity and options always help!!

[ndutton]

Where are you getting your gas?

[Al Schober]

The weak point with the stock mechanical fuel pump is the inlet settling bowl and it's seal. The pump itself is fine. I've gone so far as to saw off the bowl, plug the hole, and get fuel into the pump by an alternate path - but I wasn't totally happy with the result. Tough choice..
I've been on boats which had a 'day tank' for fuel, located above the engine and gravity feed. In the morning, a hand pump would fill the day tank. Done deal.. Gotta love simple.

[joe_db]

Unless the goop is FROM the Facet pump, you still have a problem. It may well precipitate out in the carb now.
Where do you get your gas?

[JOHN COOKSON]

Has this been going on all summer? Or is it recent? Maybe there is something in the winter blend gasoline they sell this time of year in California that was not present in summer blend gas.

TRUE GRIT

[tenders]

Gosh, a tablespoon of that dust seems like a lot to get through those filters. I'm with joe_db...the problem is not really the pump, that just happens to be the current limiting factor. At best the problem will now manifest itself in the nooks and crannies of the carb.

[joe_db]

You wouldn't be one of those places that went to 15% ethanol ?
* the Facet pumps are, in theory, rated for 85% ethanol fuel. What I have seen is ethanol doing a fine job dissolving crud from the marina fuel tank and then it settles out someplace in your boat

[Dave Neptune]

Simon, there are many electric pumps that will work just fine like the mechanical stock pump. I think in your case that no matter what pump you install the KRAP in your tank will manifest as a problem. I feel your approach to the tank is like adding water to a mud puddle to make it go away.

Try a temporary tank for a while and I think your troubles with clogging will disappear.

For what it's worth I had a mechanical on my boat and in 34 years I rebuilt it once about 10 years after purchasing and it is still working for the new owner. My personal choice for safety is the mechanical stock pump, and don't forget it can be operated by hand with the bail. That bail pumping got me back to the slip so I could R&R the pump for rebuilding.

Dave Neptune

[joe_db]

Some of us have engines with no way to mount a mechanical pump. Back when I had an older engine with a mechanical pump it worked fine.

[capnward]

I have had no problems with my mechanical pump since the rebuild, 2400 hours ago. I like being able to use the bail to prime or flush the line. Electric fuel pumps are not to be considered an upgrade from mechanical ones, in my opinion. But they do tend to have easier access for replacement.
I use non-ethanol with MMO, with a stainless gas tank, a Racor filter and two inline filters. Even so, I have to clean the carb and replace filters more often than I would like. I am having one of those episodes at the moment, in fact.
If there is goop in the pump, it's not a pump problem but a gas problem. It may be that ethanol degrades rubber and plastic pump parts, but it is more likely that it breaks loose crud in your tank and sends it downstream to collect in the filters, the pump, and the carb. Or, your source of gas may be dubious to begin with. Fortunately for me, there is a good source of non-ethanol gas on this island.
I thought all A-4s have a way to mount a mechanical pump, if you remove the plate that was put on when the change was made to electric. Or perhaps there is a space issue on that side of the engine on some boats.
Winter vs summer blend gasoline? How Californian! Do you get that at the gasoline boutique?

[ndutton]

Winter vs summer blend gasoline? How Californian! Do you get that at the gasoline boutique?

Here is the lowdown on winter vs. summer blends we 'enjoy' locally:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a3180/summer-blend-vs-winter-blend-gasoline-whats-the-difference-13747431/

Please notice it has NOTHING to do with ethanol content and all of us are using it without consequence.

As for the current issue, this is not a new wrinkle. It was the topic of a thread a year ago.

A comment from someone who has lived in Southern California his entire life:
50 years ago the smog was so bad we could not see the coastal mountain range maybe 30 miles distant (clearly visible today), our throats burned and chests hurt on summer days, schools would curtail outside activities on days with a high smog index. Emissions related measures, like them or not, have had a dramatic effect on our air quality over the long term so even if seasonal fuel blends seem nutty to non-locals, they've made a significant difference.

[HalcyonS]

Where are you getting your gas?

arco usually

[HalcyonS]

Unless the goop is FROM the Facet pump, you still have a problem. It may well precipitate out in the carb now.

yuh, I know, having done two carb rebuilds - good thing its a simple unit
Some threads back I posted pics of what I called 'carburettor cheese' found inside the carb. But lately its been the Facet causing problems.

[HalcyonS]

Has this been going on all summer? Or is it recent? Maybe there is something in the winter blend gasoline they sell this time of year in California that was not present in summer blend gas.

TRUE GRIT

wow - lots of replies to this thread!
winter? we don't have winter here
It seems to be year-round, and it clearly gets worse quickly if the engine sits for more than 2 weeks without running.