helping a Tartan 27 owner with an A4

[edwardc]

So, if I'm reading this correctly, there are bolts on the valves that I can access through the spark plug holes and I should loosen and tighten them? Also I will find something that I can direct the MMO over to them as suggested by others.

Or am I screwed with 60-60-60-30 compression?

No. The "allen wrench" suggestion is just a way to press on the valves. The valves are a little offset from the spark pulg hole, and threading the short arm side of the allen wrench down the spark hole lets you reach them.

But the technique carries a risk. Anything more than a very gentle tapping runs the risk of bending the valve.

The 60-60-60-30 is encouraging. 60 is enough to run, and the A4 will start and run on three cylinders, so you have a shot at getting it running enough to loosen any stuck valves further. We'll keep working through the issues one by one till you get there.

As for the rebuilt starter, it is VERY important that it be rebuilt to marine specs so that it is "ignition proof". This essentially means that the proper gaskets need to be installed to prevent any gasoline fumes from coming into contact with a spark. An automotive shop will likely not have installed these gaskets.

[Administrator]

Admin Bill-
I just read the other thread that FISHGUY had started earlier.
It has pics of his setup and some more history.

Do you think it'd help merging the two?

Done.

Tnx for the heads-up, Jerry.

Bill

[roadnsky]

Thanks Bill.
As always, such a great job you do maintaining the best forum on the interwebs!

[sastanley]

fishguy...just to add to the others comments..I am a Honda engine guy. OHC/OHV...flat head motors with the valves pointing the same direction as the piston/rods and rising up and down from the oil pan were new to me. Shine a flashlight in the spark plug hole, and you should see the valves off to port...a carefully placed allen wrench can usually knock them loose if they are stuck...HOWEVER, I would only do this after confirming one does NOT move at all after several engine rotations and close observation during rotation. If you have 60 in 3 and 30 in 1, it will likely start and run and the valves are moving at least, some. Zero compression on a cylinder indicates a stuck valve. You could just have some crud or carbon build up that we need to get out of there later.

Keep moving along here...heed Ed's advice on the starter..ask the shop..if they look at you funny ask for your money back and go somewhere else that knows marine engines. Once you introduce fuel to the equation, this becomes a concern.

So, have we pulled the distributor cap yet and checked that out? I would work on that next to get the spark problem solved...step 2 of 3.

edit - don't forget to take pics..they help a lot with helping to determine condition.

[Fishguy]

I have confidence in the shop I got it from, "Orange Engine and Marine" in Dana Point, CA, old school shop, they knew what I walked in with, without me saying a word... Have been getting stuff from them for a while. I appreciate that it is an important issue.

I have not opened up the distributor yet, I did replace the plugs and wires, haven't gone farther than checking for spark at the plugs and when I found nothing, I checked for spark from the coil and again found nothing. I'm thinking that there is a wiring issue as well, since I could only get the ignition to turn over the starter by using a jumper cable to the starter from a battery.

Hoping to visit the boats again this weekend...

Tim

[roadnsky]

...I did replace the plugs and wires...

Tim-
Just checking here...
Are you aware that the firing order (and plug wire order) is 1-2-FOUR-3?

[sastanley]

fishguy..all good with the starter then..just checking. These simple precautions (like ignition protection) are the things that killed the gas motor in sailboats, mostly out of fear. If you follow the USCG requirements, gas powered boats are generally safe (provided all of them are followed/practiced.) When newbies come to the forum, we gotta feel ya out and make sure you understand those precautions/requirements.

After we confirm plug wires, etc. we'll get to actually making spark, setting the motor to TDC, etc. (do you have access to the flywheel/cover and the roll pin in the center?..that is the easiest way to set TDC and turn the motor over without using the starter.)

Another thing too, a lot of the stuff we are discussing here is in the Moyer Repair Manual...be sure to add that to your first parts order when you call Ken the parts guy down the road, if you don't have one..mine came with the boat.

There is also a lot of information in the Tech tips/FAQs area of the main Moyer site too.

Anyway, check the firing order as Jerry noted. it is such a common mistake, years and years ago this diagram was created, by user rigspelt I believe..

[CalebD]

Tim/Fishguy,

So glad you found your way here. This is one of the friendliest forums I have found on the internet and not to belittle our T27Owners yahoo group (which is great for all things T27 specific) but the gang here has the most hands-on knowledge about everything Atomic 4 (regardless of boat model). This Moyer group can help you through a complete tear down and re-build of your engine if necessary and the knowledge base here is not limited to just gasoline engines but everything relating to boats (sail & power).
This is truly an impressive group of people If they can't help you then no one can.

[Fishguy]

I didn't get to spend much time on the engine this weekend, but I did look at a few things. I have a few questions. What are the circled items in the photo?<<<edit, this is not how the engine looks now, just is a picture that I took when I got the boat...Please scroll up for more current pictures>>>>> I know the ignition switch, but not the transformer looking device or the small rusty box...

I did remove the distributer cap, it's a points system now, I thought about changing to electronic right off the bat, but after looking at the ignition forums here I think I would be better off sticking with points for now. (I'm somewhat familiar with points as my other boat is powered by a 5.0 Cobra 302 Ford with points)

I think I have a bad ignition switch? I checked the voltage on the input terminal it was roughly 12volts until I turn the key then that goes to nothing and neither of the other two terminals read any voltage whatsoever regardless of the key position. The coil reads no voltage regardless of the key position(when jumping the starler directly from the battery, the coil reads approx 4volts on both terminals. None of this means anything to me, but it seems that when the key is switched to on and start that the other terminals should read something? So I think the switch might be bad? No spark at all out of the coil or any of the plugs. So this is my shopping cart now. Any suggestions? I figure start with new components, new ignition switch, the current choke cable is toast, so I know for sure that it needs replacing and a manual(boat came with a original "suggestions covering the operation and maintenance of your universal marine engine" I'm assuming the manual from Moyer will be more detailed?

Thanks for all of your help so far!

[Fishguy]

My shopping cart so far. Any suggestions?

[JOHN COOKSON]

You're on the right track in several respects.
(A) Hold off on the EI for now. Get the engine operating correctly with points then go to the EI. It will make troubleshooting easier.
(B) Keep at it until you can read 12 volts at coil + when the key is in the on position. Then:
(C) Pull the big wire out of the center of the distributor cap and hold it near the engine while you crank the engine and see if you can throw an arc to the engine. Or when the points are closed flick them open and let them snap closed. A 3/4 to one inch blue white spark is good. This way you will know for sure you are getting high voltage to the distributor.

TRUE GRIT

[thatch]

The small gadget circled in yellow is most likely a Cole-Hersee, low oil pressure alarm. If working correctly, it will buzz loudly when the ignition switch is turned on and then stop buzzing when the oil pressure builds enough to turn it off. This could be another indicator that your ignition switch is bad.
Tom

[roadnsky]

Tim-
One other suggestion for you...
Instead of just ordering the parts online, I'd encourage you to call Ken to place the order. (Just read him your list)
Ken will walk you thru the order AND may be able to make some suggestions/adjustments that we're not catching in a written forum.
Same price as online but with added service.

[edwardc]

If you have shore power, the "transformer looking" device may be just that: an isolation transformer. They're used to help avoid galvanic corrosion in the presence of bad marina wiring.

[Fishguy]

If you have shore power, the "transformer looking" device may be just that: an isolation transformer. They're used to help avoid galvanic corrosion in the presence of bad marina wiring.

Nope, no shore power yet. Here is a better picture of it..