New Guy with A-4 Issues

[Dan.Sev]

Hi guys,
I've recently purchased a 1977 27' sailboat with an late model A-4. So I say sailboat because I’m not sure what it is, all the paperwork says Catalina 27 but all the old guys around the marina say it’s not a Catalina. They have different ideas as to what it is and my internet searches have been inconclusive. Ive also searched for the manufactures plaque to no avail. If someone could help me out it would be appreciated. I’ll post some pictures in a bit. Moving on, the A-4 has been a real pain since I’ve had it. I’ve spent quite a few hours in the forms reading over different things trying to fix some of my issues. First, the engine was a real pain to start. It would turn over, sputter a bit and die. The PO used regular gasoline, which destroyed the inside of the fuel tank. So I rebuilt the carburetor and completely reworked the fuel system, including relocating the fuel filler out of the floor. So now she starts like a champ every time. Ok, now the next issue, the water pump likes to lose its prime. All the time, even with the engine running. I have checked the impeller, ensured that it is the right size (which it is and is flush), flushed with muriatic acid multiple times and after lots of frustration I’m replacing the water pump and pulling the engine for an overhaul. I forgot to mention the pumps inner seal leaks and has been for some time. Lots of nastiness under the engine and in the bilge... That’s not the main reason I decided to do the overhaul though, this engine has some history on this form. Back in 2009 the PO was having knocking issues, here is his thread. http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3783

So he never fixed the problem and just let it be, for 4 years... So it still exists and is worse. I figure the easiest way is to just pull the engine and overhaul it, Besides the PO halfway painted it yellow, and it’s ugly. I am also going to add the indigo thermostat kit (currently there is no thermostat at all) and the crankcase ventilation system. Here’s a pic and a video of the knocking. I’m sure I will have plenty of questions to pick your guy's brains with, so thanks in advance!

http://youtu.be/FkfT_lq6sMo

[Sony2000]

Remove the drive belt from you alternator, run the engine, and the worst noise may disappear. That is to say it's your accessory drive has a worn shaft. Don't pull the engine, go sailing.

[edwardc]

Hi Dan.

Welcome to the forum. There's a tremendous body of knowledge here, and lots of friendly experts, willing to help. If you stick to it I've no doubt you'll get it sorted out.

As for the boat's manufacturer, there should be a number molded into the outside of the transom, up high and on the right. This is the hull identification number (HIN), and the first three letters will identify the builder.

Here's a link to decoding the HIN: http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/hin.htm


As for the A4, first off this is not a fuel-related knocking sound. With its lowly 6:1 compression ratio, there is no need for anything other than regular gas.

When I listen to the video, I seem to hear two distinct sounds. One is the higher-pitched "tic tic tic", which is almost certainly the valves. Can be caused by sticky/bent valves, broken springs, or bad adjustment. Sticky valves can usually be addressed with repeated treatments with Marvel Mystery Oil (MMO) in both the oil and the gas, as well as putting a tablespoon or two directly into the cylinders after each run and letting it soak until the next run. A compression test can reveal sticky valves. Valve adjustment can be done with the engine mostly assembled and in place. So can spring replacement, but it's a real bear that way, and you really want to at least pull the head, if not remove the entire engine and work it on the bench.

The other sound is a lower-pitched "bang bang bang", suggestive of connecting rod bearings or wrist-pin slap. I don't think it's low enough to be main bearings (which would be more of a low "thump thump thump"), and your good oil pressure seems to indicate your mains are fine. If this is the case, it's definitely a "remove-and-rebuild" item.

I'm sure others will be quickly along with a lot more suggestions and help.

[Carl-T705]

Regular gas destroyed the fuel tank ??? How so? Generally, the knock should fade when you remove the plug wire for the knocking cylinder.

[Dan.Sev]

OK, thanks Edward, Ill check for the hull number today. I think it might be a Pearson of some sort. I was thinking the lower pitch ( the one that actually worries me) was probably a rod issue. I am looking forward to the rebuild, just not the taking it out of the boat part, lol. As far as the fuel tank, it was an old red plastic outboard tank like one you would find on a pontoon boat, it was modified to work as an internal tank. The plastic line that draws the fuel from the bottom of the tank was nonexistent, so I just replaced everything. Also the knock doesn't really fade when disconnecting the plug wires, its pretty consistent with engine rpm. Compression testing either later today or tomorrow, Ill posts the numbers. Here are the boat pics.

[edwardc]

Nice photos.

It's definitely not a Catalina 27. I found this picture of one on the web (note the portlights) :



Although the hardware is suggestive of a late-70s Pearson (Lewmar non-self-tailing winches, Schaefer genoa cars, spinnaker pole, Edson wheel steering), it's not a Pearson 27 either (note the stern-hung rudder):

[edwardc]

Could it be a Cal 27?:

[Dan.Sev]

Ok figured it out. She's a Cal 2-27. Thanks for the help on the hull Id number. Ha, just noticed you figured figured it out about 20 mins before me.

[sastanley]

Roger that...Cal 2-27...nice sleuthing ED! Dan, the boat with the blue sail bag on the bow in your pic (across the doc) is a Catalina 27.

One problem solved..nice work people!

[ndutton]

the boat with the blue sail bag on the bow in your pic (across the doc) is a Catalina 27.

With those uh, interesting and obscenely expensive jumbo retrofit windows. Cal 20 next door too.

[sastanley]

Neil..no kidding...blech!!!!\

Good eye...Cal 20 with the Evinrude hanging off the back.

Notice the Cal 25 on the next dock in the port bow shot?

The C-27 Ed posted is much nicer (and newer, most likely no A-4 inside).

[ndutton]

The C-27 Ed posted is much nicer (and newer, most likely no A-4 inside).

Probably stinky and noisy if you get my drift.

I'm pretty sure that's Coconut Island in the background. Coconut Island was used for the wide angle shots of Gilligan's Island.

[sastanley]

I am sure it is stinky & loud & etc.etc....

Sorry, i am not really old enough to remember Gilligan's Island.

[Dan.Sev]

Haha good eye. That is indeed coconut island. Been around Kaneohe bay have ya?

[ndutton]

Haha good eye. That is indeed coconut island. Been around Kaneohe bay have ya?

Not as much as I'd like.

There's a GREAT wreck dive just outside of Manalua Bay (East of Diamond Head) on the other side of Oahu. In fact, it's the only real diveable wreck on the island. I say real because all the rest were intentionally sunk either as dive or tourist submarine attractions or WW2 war materials scrap (many barges), this one actually crashed. It's a WW2 fighter plane wreck, a Chance-Vought F4U Corsair that took off from Kaneohe Naval Air Station (1948?) and didn't make it very far. The pilot got out uninjured. The canopy is slid back, the tailhook extended and the propeller tips bent from the crash. Looks a little like an Indigo.

As recreational dives go it's deep and usually rough. By the way, welcome to the forum. Sorry about the thread hijack.