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  #176   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 11-24-2018, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Administrator View Post
A marine tech friend told me that you could get a rough sense of the age of a boat by looking to see whether Phillips head screws had been used in the deck hardware.

The slot alignment on my own boat is as per Neil's comments in an earlier post.

Bill
Your friend is absolutely correct. During my tenure in the industry which pretty much covered the 70's I never even saw a Phillips head fastener. Our screw guns had driver bits with collars to keep the screw heads centered.
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  #177   IP: 72.194.222.152
Old 11-24-2018, 08:57 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
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Bill or Neil

Maybe I'm missing something here.......
How can you be assured that the holes in the rail mounting feet will line up with the existing holes in the boat after the rail is welded in a shop? Especially since the pieces are loose now.

TRUE GRIT
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  #178   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 11-24-2018, 09:06 PM
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A welding jig can be easily fabricated to hold everything in alignment. Off the deck measure the distance of the three holes for each leg from the outboard mounting hole of the transom leg, also the distance between corresponding mounting holes for all four legs. Lay out the dimensions on a sheet of plywood and screw all the pieces where they belong before welding it back together. Not only will this align the rotation of the foot pads but also the dimension between the broken legs. The pads will probably need to be shimmed on the jig to allow for deck camber.
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  #179   IP: 70.186.108.69
Old 11-24-2018, 09:52 PM
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Awesome idea Neal.

I was thinking, if you put a correct sized rod inside the rail, at the broken joint, this will force the pieces into their pre-break position and alignment. After that its only the leg in/out position to get right.

The machine shop I use has been open for ages and is owned by an old time guy. He knows lots of tricks.

I love to hear all ya'll thoughts and experiences on stuff like this, in any case.
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  #180   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 11-24-2018, 10:05 PM
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Welding tends to shrink, deform and deflect the project so holding the feet in alignment pays off during installation.
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Old 11-24-2018, 10:06 PM
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So going back to the boat and making a cardboard template of the bolt holes would be good idea then......?
Since the center posts are intact, would just need a template from center post to side post.
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Old 11-24-2018, 10:07 PM
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So going back to the boat and making a cardboard template of the bolt holes would be good idea then......?
I think so. The quality of the finished product depends on the quality of the pattern.
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  #183   IP: 72.194.222.152
Old 11-25-2018, 02:54 AM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CajunSpike View Post
The machine shop I use has been open for ages and is owned by an old time guy. He knows lots of tricks.
I love to hear all ya'll thoughts and experiences on stuff like this, in any case.
My first boat was a Columbia 24. It didn't have a stern rail. I asked the local metal fabricator to come to the boat and give me an estimate for a stern rail. He showed up with tape measure, pencil, and pad of paper, made a few rough measurements recorded them (this was before the day that phones took pictures) and gave me an estimate.
Two or three weeks later he asked me to meet him at the boat - the rail was ready.
The rail fit perfectly. I couldn't believe it. From rough measurements to perfect rail.
He told me how he did it. He cut and bent the steel and did minimal welding then he and another fella brought the rail down to the boat and did the final bends then took it back to the shop and finished the welding. A true custom rail.
I'll bet your guy knows a few tricks like this. Maybe he can use the boat itself as a template.

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  #184   IP: 70.186.108.69
Old 11-25-2018, 07:16 PM
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Went back to the marina today(22 miles) and took some cardboard with me.
Cut out a pattern that was close, then aligned it to the mounting points on the deck.
Punched holes in the cardboard that matched the holes in the deck.
Boat without rails. Kinda like it. Yes I know the swim ladder legs are off center.


Pattern next to rail. Inserted temp sticks to hold rails together.


Pattern under legs to check how close it is to reality. Decent I think.
Holes match up.
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Old 12-05-2018, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
During my tenure in the industry which pretty much covered the 70's I never even saw a Phillips head fastener. Our screw guns had driver bits with collars to keep the screw heads centered.
Neil, do you know of a source for these driver bits with collars?

Bill
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Old 12-05-2018, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
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Neil, do you know of a source for these driver bits with collars?
McMaster-Carr is one source and they have several sizes. As an example, look up their number 7039A14
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  #187   IP: 73.19.60.36
Old 12-06-2018, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
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McMaster-Carr is one source and they have several sizes. As an example, look up their number 7039A14

Wow, I'm getting some of those!!!
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Old 12-07-2018, 09:20 AM
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I should mention that having used such bits with slotted screws for several years, they perform poorly compared to simple Phillips head screws with a properly sized driver bit. I think I still have one of my old collared bits but can't remember the last time I used it, more like a museum piece.
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Old 12-07-2018, 10:47 AM
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Rail is at a shop getting repaired. No word yet on progress. NOT going back with the slotted bolts. Probably going to use hex head stainless same size.
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Old 12-07-2018, 10:57 AM
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If you have a good fastener source available, check out button head machine screws. They have a hex recess to fit an allen wrench, good tool holding properties and good appearance.
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Last edited by ndutton; 12-07-2018 at 04:06 PM.
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  #191   IP: 70.186.108.69
Old 12-08-2018, 02:34 PM
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From the local Lowes, who had a large stainless selection...ready to go when rail is done. Thanks for the idea Neal.

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Old 12-08-2018, 03:01 PM
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Now, if you want to make it truly First Yacht Quality, touch those heads on a buffing wheel. They'll polish up mirror bright.

(it's a disease, I tell ya)
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  #193   IP: 129.49.252.20
Old 12-08-2018, 03:43 PM
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ss from lowes

my local lowes store didn't know the stainless alloy that was used in there hardware. My local west marine had no idea either. May get corrosion sooner than you think. I've had good luck with Bolt Depot.
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  #194   IP: 70.186.108.69
Old 12-08-2018, 04:06 PM
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Its pretty obvious what First Yacht Quality means..but is there an interesting
back story behind that?
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Old 12-08-2018, 04:29 PM
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Its pretty obvious what First Yacht Quality means..but is there an interesting back story behind that?
At the sailboat factories it was a phrase that popped up frequently to remind ourselves that we could produce a better product at the insignificant expense of a little attention. It's something that once appreciated you'll carry the rest of your life. For example, which of these two electrical installations looks like the electrician cared about what he was doing, paid a little extra attention to detail? Which electrician would you rather have working in your house or office or better yet as an employer, working for you?
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Last edited by ndutton; 12-08-2018 at 04:46 PM.
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  #196   IP: 73.19.60.36
Old Yesterday, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
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At the sailboat factories it was a phrase that popped up frequently to remind ourselves that we could produce a better product at the insignificant expense of a little attention. It's something that once appreciated you'll carry the rest of your life. For example, which of these two electrical installations looks like the electrician cared about what he was doing, paid a little extra attention to detail? Which electrician would you rather have working in your house or office or better yet as an employer, working for you?

lol nice, when I do that the commodore calls it "OCD"
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  #197   IP: 73.212.47.219
Old Yesterday, 10:41 PM
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Two cents (and probably not worth it) on those allen head bolts. I used to use those unknown stainless alloys on motorcycle repairs. After shining them up, a dab of clear nail polish will help to keep them from rusting.
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