Valve Lifters

[Ball Racing]

Whats a side lifter?????????????????

[lat 64]

Whats a side lifter?????????????????

I guess that would be referring to a lifter in a side-valve(flat head) engine?
Just a guess.

[ndutton]

I'm not on board with much of what has been suggested here but IF oil starvation is a problem in A-4's (?) to the point it deforms lifters (??) to the point they need to be torched red hot and beaten out of their holes (???), I propose such oil starvation will have caused far more carnage than just the lifters. They'll be the least of your problems.

Here's my latest question: What does Sample N=2 mean?

[Kelly]

Sample N=2?

Are you talking statistics here? This could be 2 samples drawn from a certain population. If your population is large, then your 2 samples are not very representative.

Am I close?

[caeruleus]

Well. I got my lifters out by removing the oil pan and dropping them through the bottom, as recommended. The two lifters on the end seemed to be the most difficult, but I was able to finally work them down and out beside the crankshaft.

Surprise! They were in perfect shape. I took a mic reading on each, and they were all within about a thousandth of each other, and straight. And they were clean, too. The problem doesn't seem to be the lifters at all, but the guides themselves. Any lifter will stick on the same problematic guides. Difficult to see down into them, but there is either some corrosion or varnish on the inside walls.

So the next step is to take a hone and lightly clean them out, and see if that doesn't fix it.

[Ball Racing]

When I rebuilt my motor, it was a rusty mess, and I did not keep the lifters in order when I put them back.
I had resurfaced them because they had pits.
They all came out fine, but for what ever the reason, half of them were to tight to go back in right ( I tried every combination of arrangment).
I took a small brake hone, and fit each lifter to the bore.

[Sony2000]

Varnish, varnish, varnish. Not all "stuck valves", are stuck valves then.
So a thorough proceedure, since the engines are getting so old, is to turn our attention to the lifter guides as well as the valve guides!
Don't forget the MMO, or you will pay for it later!

[ILikeRust]

Well. I got my lifters out by removing the oil pan and dropping them through the bottom, as recommended.

Excellent! Congrats!

Surprise! They were in perfect shape. I took a mic reading on each, and they were all within about a thousandth of each other, and straight.

Color me unsurprised.

The problem doesn't seem to be the lifters at all, but the guides themselves. Any lifter will stick on the same problematic guides. Difficult to see down into them, but there is either some corrosion or varnish on the inside walls.

I used a 12-gauge shotgun cleaning kit to clean the lifter bores when I did my overhaul.

Congrats on finally getting them out! Now onward to the next step!

[ndutton]

Sample N=2?

Are you talking statistics here? This could be 2 samples drawn from a certain population. If your population is large, then your 2 samples are not very representative.

Am I close?

Thank you for the statistics lesson but as a simple boatbuilder I'm unimpressed by the reference as support for the oil starvation scenario. Caeruleus' excellent report is far more impressive and a welcomed relief from the speculation.

[caeruleus]

Thanks for the tip on the shotgun brush, Rust Lover. I had planned to use a brake hone, but the brush might work quite well... I've gotta set this all aside for a week or so, as employment beckons, sadly, toward comparatively unimportant tasks. Meantime, I'll order up the replacement gaskets and have the head tanked and checked.

Any thoughts at all on techniques for cleaning out the engine before reassembling? The crank and pistons (and sprockets) are still in place. Recommended solvents? And is coating the valve guides with Marvel before replacing them the right next step? And how about the cam bearing surfaces? Marvel? or something stiffer, like moly grease?

[Ball Racing]

I use camshaft break-in lube on the cam lobes, and lifters when I re install them.
I would also put a grease on the valve stems.

[Mark Millbauer]

I recently had the exact same lifter problem during a major rebuild. About half of the lifters had to be driven out with a punch and hammer. The problem was not the lifters or cleanliness. This motor sat in a barn for a number of years before I acquired it and proceeded to dismantle it. After discussing it with my automotive machinist friend and given three out of the four cylinder bores were significantly out of round, (Not to be confused with excessive over bore or taper which the cylinders did not display.) we settled on the theory that during the time it was sitting it must have frozen quite significantly. We successfully honed each lifter bore with a quality brake style hone and had the cylinders bored .010 over.

[lat 64]

I recently had the exact same lifter problem during a major rebuild. About half of the lifters had to be driven out with a punch and hammer. The problem was not the lifters or cleanliness. This motor sat in a barn for a number of years before I acquired it and proceeded to dismantle it. After discussing it with my automotive machinist friend and given three out of the four cylinder bores were significantly out of round, (Not to be confused with excessive over bore or taper which the cylinders did not display.) we settled on the theory that during the time it was sitting it must have frozen quite significantly. We successfully honed each lifter bore with a quality brake style hone and had the cylinders bored .010 over.

Dave Neptune would be a better source for this, but I seem to remember that as the auto industry moved into the seventies, the casting for engines in autos was put into production sometimes a bit too early. Apparently a casting should be left to season before it gets a final machining. I once took apart a brand-new pontiac long block from Mexico that was locked up from being bored and assembled right after it was cast. We just re-machined it and drilled out a few oil passages that were forgot. Yes, an engine was delivered to Mr Goodwrench without an oil passage from the main journals to the cam bearings! We just drilled it out with a long bit to finish the factory job.
I am told some of these castings will move a bit for years afterward. Could be a similar phenom with Marks experience.

old engines just get better

R.

[Mo]

Very interesting Russ...thanks. Will keep an eye out and see where that goes.

[caeruleus]

Mark - that's very interesting. How did you know the cylinders were out of round? Mine turns stiffly, but I figured it was just sitting without much oil on the walls for so long. Why would a dry engine deform from freezing?