Starting engine problem

[RIDAVIDK]

Hello everyone

I will try and explain the issue I am having as clearly as possible. I have had my boat, a 1975 Pearson 28 for two seasons now. The engine has run flawlessly until a few days ago. I had used the boat last weekend with no problems. I went to go out mid-week, and the boat was covered in cormorant guano. I poured many buckets of seawater on the deck and cockpit areas and scrubbed it off. When I went to start the engine, no go. It would turn over, but would not catch. I tried for quite some time, but no luck. I went back a couple of hours later, and managed to get it started. I ran the engine for about 20 minutes, and it ran perfectly. I shut it off, and immediately tried to start it again, and no go. Once again I tried for a while and it wouldn't start. The next day was basically a repeat. I managed to get it started and it ran great. Shut it down, and it wouldn't start again.

So far after reading many posts on here I have checked the spark coming from the coil, and it was good. Good spark at the plugs. I removed the spark arrestor and I could see and smell fuel. I removed the plugs and did the thumb over the hole test and got good compression on all cylinders. The choke is fully closed.

I went down again this morning with my son and put in new plugs, and got the engine running again. We took it out on the bay for about an hour and the engine ran great. Two unusual things happened though. The temperature gauge which has always worked perfectly was jumping all over the place. It would read 100, then jump to 150, back to 130 and hold for a while, then jump back to 100. When we tied up at the mooring I shut the engine down and tried to restart. I don't know if everyone has a similar set up, but I turn on the ignition key and then press a rubber covered starter button. Normally the engine would start on the 1st or 2nd try. The engine did restart this time, but not while I was holding the button down. It would start when I let the button go. That never was like that before.

I am wondering if something has happened to the starter button, and possibly the temperature gauge from all the water I dumped on the seats and in the cockpit. Is there a way to test the gauges and starter button? I should say that the oil pressure and amp gauge both still work fine. I have easy access to the gauges and starter button from the back side.

I have included a photo of the instrument panel. The starter is the gray button on the lower left.

Thanks in advance

David

[Marian Claire]

Disconnect wires on starter button and check between terminals for continuity with button pushed in. When I my starter button acted up I just made a wire jumper for it. One end attached the other loose. Turn the key, touch the loose end to the other terminal. Remove loose end when she starts and cap with a wire nut. Not great but it got me home and now I carry a spare. Sparks could be an issue.
Dan S/V Marian Claire

[BunnyPlanet169]

This really sounds electrical to me, maybe bad grounding between the engine and the batteries. That would explain the gauges jumping. I'd really poke around in all that and find and replace any loose or greenish looking connections. You might take a jumper cable between the batt negative and the block and see if the problems go away - that would confirm this hypothesis.

[RIDAVIDK]

Bad ground

I spoke to my brother in-law who is pretty good with engines (motorcycles) and he also thought it was probably a bad ground, so that will be my first line of attack. I will also check out the starter button itself.

Since once I get it running, it runs great, I assume I can rule out compression and fuel problems, just leaving electrical?

Thanks again.

David

[Dave Neptune]

David, if you have an ignition power issue the best test is the proverbial "hot wire check". However in your case I would just replace the start button as it did malfunction and it won't get better.
I'd also look at the key switch and suspect that water may of encroached the switch when dumping the water for scrubbing. Then a good look at the grounds.
If the switches and/or associated connections to them were iffy the salt water may of pointed tem out to you.
Remember to close the intake for long cranking periods too.

Dave Neptune

[RIDAVIDK]

Dave

Thanks for the suggestions. I looked on the defender site and I can get the key and push button switch for about $40. What is the traditional "hot wire" test. Will that bypass the key and starter button so that I definitely know they are the problem. Also, do you have any insight into the malfunctioning temperature gauge? Do you think they are related, or maybe two separate problems? My brother in-law seemed to think the jumpy gauge seemed like a bad ground problem.

David

[roadnsky]

...What is the traditional "hot wire" test. Will that bypass the key and starter button so that I definitely know they are the problem.

Connect a jumper wire (12-14 gauge) between the large battery terminal on the starter solenoid and the positive terminal (+) of the coil.
Connecting this jumper wire is the same as turning on the ignition switch and it will by-pass any problem that might exist in the "starting circuit", including the ignition switch itself.

DON'T leave this wire installed very long unless the engine is running or you'll pretty likely burn out the coil.
It's the same as having the ignition left ON.

[RIDAVIDK]

Roadnsky

I hate to be ignorant, but does this mean I would then still need to push the starter button to start the engine? If so, will this then show me whether or not the turned key switch is not working properly?

David

[ndutton]

I hate to be ignorant, but does this mean I would then still need to push the starter button to start the engine? If so, will this then show me whether or not the turned key switch is not working properly?

That's exactly correct but in addition to the key switch it also bypasses the ignition wiring and all its connections. Based on recent experiences in another thread this week, be very careful to connect the temporary jumper wire to the small coil + post. I've started recommending a fuse in the temporary jumper wire for safety. Fuse should be around 15 amps.

[RIDAVIDK]

Hi All

I should have gotten back here sooner, but so it goes.

I figured out my engine starting problem. I knew I had a spare coil on the boat from when I bought it. It actually was the original coil from when they changed the ignition over to electronic ignition. I decided to try the old coil when once again the engine would not start. I wired it in and the engine started instantly. I tried it several times and each time it fired right up. I went out and bought a NAPA coil at a store around the corner and have had no trouble since. My only issue now is that the NAPA coli has onye 3 ohms internal resistance and most people seem to think it needs 4. I am thinking of ordering a coil and a few other parts from Don Moyer and keeping the NAPA coil as a spare for the future.

David

[joe_db]

You could also get a 1 ohm ballast resistor for this coil.

Hi All

I should have gotten back here sooner, but so it goes.

I figured out my engine starting problem. I knew I had a spare coil on the boat from when I bought it. It actually was the original coil from when they changed the ignition over to electronic ignition. I decided to try the old coil when once again the engine would not start. I wired it in and the engine started instantly. I tried it several times and each time it fired right up. I went out and bought a NAPA coil at a store around the corner and have had no trouble since. My only issue now is that the NAPA coli has onye 3 ohms internal resistance and most people seem to think it needs 4. I am thinking of ordering a coil and a few other parts from Don Moyer and keeping the NAPA coil as a spare for the future.

David

[ndutton]

Depending on your alternator output voltage, until you get the coil resistance up you're on borrowed time.