Balmar Alternator Installation and Test

[joe_db]

OTOH I love mine - it makes crimps about 100x better than the local battery store with their hammer crimper. It is not as good as the big $$$$ hand crimpers, but for much less money it does the job for me.
YMMV
The reviewer is right though - especially for the bigger sizes, the die labels are kind of random.

[ndutton]

Joe, some comparison numbers for ya:

Remembering this thread while testing a new engine gadget today I switched in my house banks with the engine running at 1200 RPM. Initial alternator output was 43+ amps. I'm not suggesting that is its maximum, only that based on battery state of charge at that moment it's what she delivered. It's a Delco 10Si, single wire.

[joe_db]

Joe, some comparison numbers for ya:

Remembering this thread while testing a new engine gadget today I switched in my house banks with the engine running at 1200 RPM. Initial alternator output was 43+ amps. I'm not suggesting that is its maximum, only that based on battery state of charge at that moment it's what she delivered. It's a Delco 10Si, single wire.

Sounds good. I load up the system by runnign a hair dryer to see what the max is. My 10si did around 47-49 amps I think, but now it suffers from a bad bearing

[ndutton]

Sorry, can't resist

http://www.moyermarine.com/cgi-bin/shopper.cgi?preadd=action&key=OVEL_04.1_546

[ndutton]

What would you say is the expected cost of installing this alternator for someone wanting to upgrade their charging system from the stock configuration? Following this thread it looks like there's the cost of the alternator itself, a new pulley, a new external regulator, anything else? I researched the two regulators Balmar recommended to Admin Bill (mentioned in another thread) and thought they were pretty proud of them. Maybe too proud. Dealbreaker proud.

[joe_db]

What would you say is the expected cost of installing this alternator for someone wanting to upgrade their charging system from the stock configuration? Following this thread it looks like there's the cost of the alternator itself, a new pulley, a new external regulator, anything else? I researched the two regulators Balmar recommended to Admin Bill (mentioned in another thread) and thought they were pretty proud of them. Maybe too proud. Dealbreaker proud.

Well the alternator including shipping is about $70. Wire is variable, depending on what you already have. My pulley was free because I got it from my 10si, but if you have to buy one I see them on Fleabay for around $10-$20 or so. The longer belt is needed, the same one the 10si uses. I think it was $5 or $10 at the local Western Auto. The regulator is highly variable. You might already have one. A Transpo single stage adjustable regulator is somewhere between $40 and $70 or so, depending on your shopping skills and what is on Amazon or Ebay when you go looking. Cheapest new 3 stage I have seen is $150 or so and double that for Balmar.
So I think you are looking at someplace around $130-$160 or so and then it goes up for the big $$$ regulators. I could probably kluge the stock Motorola regulator on there, but without the adjustable setpoint you lose a lot - if not all - of the advantages of the new alternator.

[ndutton]

Not sure I see the point of going from a basic single stage internal regulator to a basic single stage external regulator. Isn't the multi-stage charging profile the main argument for upgrading in the first place?

[joe_db]

Not sure I see the point of going from a basic single stage internal regulator to a basic single stage external regulator. Isn't the multi-stage charging profile the main argument for upgrading in the first place?

Sort of. Unless you just happen to have an internal regulator set exactly how you want it and never change battery chemistry, it is a huge advantage to be able to change the set point. The stock Motorola regulator that I had was set to 13.8 volts, which was far too low for wet cells and pretty slow at best with gels. 3 stage is of course better, but costs a lot more. I can do "DIY" 3 stage by turning the voltage up and down myself too.
To give an extreme example, if I had wet cell traction batteries (golf cart - floor sweeper etc) that were full when I left the dock, I could turn the voltage down to 13.5 or so and not boil off battery water. If they were near dead, I could turn the regulator up to 14.6-14.8 or so and charge them as fast as I could. I crank it up to 15+ for an equalizing charge if I didn't have a battery charger that could do that. All depends on how cheap and willing to monkey with things you are, the 3 stage does all this for you more or less
EDIT - when the bearing and belt were having issues on my 10si, I turned the voltage down to 13 to get home. This kept the batteries where they were without really charging, so the alternator output and belt stress were minimal.

[ndutton]

Maybe I'm a bit weary of internet marine electrical guru's hawking multi-stage charging systems as must-haves. If they're sincere and not simply selling gear then the cost of upgrading ramps up quickly. Following their typical advice I could easily see controlling the $100 alternator in this thread with a $300 ~ $500 regulator.

[joe_db]

Maybe I'm a bit weary of internet marine electrical guru's hawking multi-stage charging systems as must-haves. If they're sincere and not simply selling gear then the cost of upgrading ramps up quickly. Following their typical advice I could easily see controlling the $100 alternator in this thread with a $300 ~ $500 regulator.

Well to be fair, this is an Ebay sale of something that would have cost around $500 or so new (whether is/was worth that is another story, I could just keep buying $65 Chinese 10si knockoffs instead)

[ndutton]

Well to be fair, this is an Ebay sale of something that would have cost around $500 or so new (whether is/was worth that is another story)

Oh goody, now we're up to $800 ~ $1000, alt and the typical recommended multi-stage regulator combined.

Look, the combination of an ebay find and having a preferred external regulator on hand makes sense but if left to normal circumstances . . . well, y'know.

Kinda makes MMI's 120A alternator a bargain @ $327 admittedly without the multi-stage charging profile.

[joe_db]

With a fixed 14.8 volt internal regulator, I would be spending about $600/month on replacement batteries with that thing

[ndutton]

I have something similar to the MMI product and because of electronic ignition considerations had the internal reg replaced to a tamer voltage. Cost a little over $50, parts and labor.

I've enjoyed the discussion, fishing around for any possible reason to change from my very simple system to something more highfalutin but weighing my satisfaction with current battery performance and battery life I guess I'm just not there.

This has nothing to do with your very good ebay find, just exploring what I would have to invest if somehow persuaded to head in that direction.

[Van_Isle]

If you keep your eyes open ... regulators do pop up ... like the Balmar MC-614H I picked up for $155.

http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10285

(it turned out to be $155, with a partial refund due to a missing fused pigtail for the battery voltage sense cable).

Still working on options for the temperature sensors for alternator and battery.

[joe_db]

The frustrating thing is the temp sensors are $1.00 parts welded/stuck/glued into a battery lug. We just have to find out which $1 part
I replaced my old battery charger with a Pronautic that came with a temperature sensor. It really helps in the winter, summer charge voltages are too low for a 30 degree day.