Tee off of intake for head

[JimHo]

I have a new to me Tartan 30 and am concerned about the integrity of the various ball valves and seacocks that have been installed. The raw water intake seacock is a Groco, and looks like it was installed recently. It is easy to access and service as well. The head intake is virtually inaccessible to anyone without 4’ arms, and the 1-1/2” outflow seacock is blocked from closing by the FW system interchanger which is mounted under the sink.

I need to clean this mess up, and would prefer to only pay for one seacock if possible. I was wondering what the issue would be with running a tee off of the engine raw water intake to supply the head. If I do this, I can eliminate the inaccessible seacock and reduce the number of holes in my boat by 1.

Any words of warning?

Thanks - Jim

[joe_db]

I would strongly suggest not doing that. If anything goes wrong with the head that allows air to flow back to the fitting, the engine will lose suction.

[ndutton]

I'm with Joe on this. The older Catalina 30's had a similar arrangement for the head intake, it shared the head sink drain thru-hull (Shawn, was yours like this?). What a nightmare. Neither the sink nor the head worked particularly well and the valve combination to try and make it work only complicated matters.

One daysail with my teenage son and his friends was most frustrating. We were sailing in Los Angeles outer harbor, tight quarters with lots of shipping traffic (container ships entering and leaving, tugs with fuel barges, etc) and about 25 knots of wind. My hands were full. Of course that was when one of the lady guests decided she had to tinkle. Even though I'd included head operation in my pre-sortie briefing, there was no way I could leave the helm to demonstrate operation again and also no way I could describe verbally how to set multiple valves in different compartments to operate a simple toilet.

Next haulout I added two thru-hulls, closed off the old sink drain/head intake thru-hull. Now the head has it's own intake immediately inside the lower head cabinet door (ease of access) and the sink drains to its own thru-hull that replaced the old plastic knotmeter paddlewheel.

[Marian Claire]

http://www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/installing-head.asp

Last paragraph under "Holding Tank".
Dan S/V Marian Claire

[joe_db]

I once decided to T the head intake off the sink. My idea was I could shut the sink seacock and add freshwater or antifreeze in winter to the sink and suck it through the head. That part actually worked
The part that would not work was sucking saltwater into the head, it just ended up sucking air This plan probably would work with a deep draft boat that has the intake 4 feet underwater, but it surely did not for my boat.

I'm with Joe on this. The older Catalina 30's had a similar arrangement for the head intake, it shared the head sink drain thru-hull (Shawn, was yours like this?). What a nightmare. Neither the sink nor the head worked particularly well and the valve combination to try and make it work only complicated matters.

One daysail with my teenage son and his friends was most frustrating. We were sailing in Los Angeles outer harbor, tight quarters with lots of shipping traffic (container ships entering and leaving, tugs with fuel barges, etc) and about 25 knots of wind. My hands were full. Of course that was when one of the lady guests decided she had to tinkle. Even though I'd included head operation in my pre-sortie briefing, there was no way I could leave the helm to demonstrate operation again and also no way I could describe verbally how to set multiple valves in different compartments to operate a simple toilet.

Next haulout I added two thru-hulls, closed off the old sink drain/head intake thru-hull. Now the head has it's own intake immediately inside the lower head cabinet door (ease of access) and the sink drains to its own thru-hull that replaced the old plastic knotmeter paddlewheel.

[Administrator]

We're talking about a 3-way valve and not a tee, right?

Bill

[JimHo]

I think I'm talking about not doing it at all Bill! I hadn't though about the back flow which could only be stopped by a 3-way or a check valve.

This adds too much complication and danger for the potential benefit. I'll put in a seacock in a more accessible position instead.

Thanks all for the replies.

[Oldlaxer1]

We're talking about a 3-way valve and not a tee, right?

Bill

I put a three way valve in between the head intake and the sink outflow. I did this mainly to allow a fresh water flush of the head at the end of the day. For normal head use I position it so the sink will just slowly drain and then put a rubber stopper in the drain. The head has enough draw and it works fine. Washing up afterward, pull the drain plug and the sink will drain (albeit a bit slower than normal). At the end of the day I fill the sink with fresh water and switch the 3 way to only draw from there and flush and rinse the head. Really keeps the odors down. (A Peggy Hall tip)
I would not consider sharing the engine intake with the head intake even though closing the head intake is done by braille method only. (I too have a Tartan 30 and would love to meet the guy who decided to put the head thru-hull in the most inaccessible place possible.)

[sastanley]

I flush with fresh water exclusively now. Urine and salt water crystalize and fill up the hoses, and make it smell.

If your fresh water tanks are big enough, you can simply use them (I have a "shower" hose in the head so I can flush that way), or we carry a couple jugs of tap water and flush with that. It makes a HUGE difference in reducing/eliminating the head smell, especially if you start with fresh clean high quality hoses. I highly recommend that you at least make the last flush of the day/weekend cruise with fresh water to clear salt water from the lines.

If you sail in a fresh water lake none of this applies, but any thru-hulls I can eliminate I am happy, so a couple jugs solves this particular issue.

My opinion on your question is that I have tapped other thru-hulls before (double up sinks, the head intake back in the day, etc.), but I would always have a dedicated intake for the engine as well..we want to reduce the chance of failures related to the engine if at all possible, for all the reasons mentioned in previous posts.

[HalcyonS]

I think I'm talking about not doing it at all Bill! I hadn't though about the back flow which could only be stopped by a 3-way or a check valve.

This adds too much complication and danger for the potential benefit. I'll put in a seacock in a more accessible position instead.

Thanks all for the replies.

Jim, I'll be a dissenting voice here. When I got my old boat almost 120 years ago, it had 7 (count em, 7!) aging bronze thu hulls. I'm down to 3 now and hope to get to 2 soon. A few years ago, I *did* take a tee off my raw water inlet to my head intake, but I did include a shutoff valve to the head intake. In my case its slightly inconvenient (the valve is under the sole) but otherwise, its worked fine. We always pen and close the head exhaust each time, so its just one more valve.

[BadaBing]

I'm not so sure that this idea is so bad for a Tar t an.
My T30 draws its cooling water from at about 2' below the waterline. As such the is positive water pressure pushing water into the boat up to the bottom of the diskette seat platform, which is well above the raw water pump.
Tapping with a T here, imo would only be an issue if your already lifted out f the water of seriously healed over, in which case there are other issues other than the head. I would definitely add a shut off valve for the head supply and be very sure that your existing raw water engine I take fitting is very clear of paint or growth buildup.

But that is just my opinion.l, others have said otherwise.