Starting problems

[paulpopb]

I have a 5411 diesel and have been having problems starting for a while. It started with me not getting a click or anything after turning on the ignition and pressing the starter. I then have to put direct current to the right hand terminal on the coil which makes it wherr, then I remove the wire and can start as normal. The problem is it is now getting worse to start. It sounds as if the engine is in gear (its not) or the engine is too cold ( I'm in Florida) or the battery is low. Which is definitely not the case.
I'm trying to limp back to base along the ICW and the Ockichobee waterway so I am having to use the engine quite a bit so any advice will be great.

[ndutton]

Oh my, where to start (get it,start? Ha ha, I amuse myself)?

I expect you're referring to the starting circuit as ignition (no ignition on diesels) and a solenoid mounted on the side of the starter as a coil (also, no coil on diesels). Assuming the battery is fully charged and in good shape, I suggest checking all battery cable terminals and connections for looseness or corrosion from the battery all the way to the starter. Following that I'd do the same with the starting circuit from the start button to the solenoid and then the solenoid itself. Check the voltage at various points along the path from the battery to the starter during a poor start episode to see where the voltage drop occurs and you'll home in on the problem.

Further, it is my understanding that the 5411 won't start without the preheat of the glow plugs regardless of climate.

[marthur]

No click means the solenoid is not engaging. Sometimes this means not enough elelctricity at the solenoid, sometimes it means bad solenoid.

For a problem like this my thoughts run to: bad connections, faulty ignition switch, broken wire (had one inside a battery cable on one of my cars!), faulty starter solenoid / faulty starter. In your case, it sounds like not enough current.

And of course, you can eliminate all your dis-easil starting problems by installing a rebuilt A-4

[paulpopb]

Starting problems

Thanks for your reply, I was wandering about that as it did start when I kept the glow plugs on longer.
Why does the solenoid wherr then when I put current to the other terminal, thats what put me in mind of a coil.

[ndutton]

I'm really guessing here as I am not familiar with the 5411 specifically but I'll give it a try.

It sounds to me that when you jumper 12V power to the starter post the starter is spinning without the starter drive engaging the flywheel, hence the whirring sound with no load on the starter. The question then is why does that remedy the problem temporarily? I'd have a hard look at the cable connection at the solenoid. Fussing about in that immediate area seems to have an effect on the symptom. That, and the fact that the problem is deteriorating tells me you're looking for a poor connection or maybe an intermittent and worsening solenoid issue.

[sastanley]

5411 starting problem

My stepfather has the M-15, which is basically the same motor as the 5411. We have had starter troubles too over the last few years. In our case I think the solenoid is going bad...we get a click, but it doesn't turn over..usually by the 3rd or 4th try, or just as I've gone for the winch handle to go give it a whack, it will go.

It takes about 10-15 seconds of glow plug to get the engine to fire up, so Neil's comment is a good one...glow plugs are a must with the M-15/5411.

I guess I am just commenting that we have a solenoid problem (original as far as I know) with his 5411, and it sometimes doesn't want to go, which may or may not be the cause of your troubles.

[Andrew]

5411 starting problem

My 1982 5411 also having start problems. Turn the key and there's a click in the motor compartment. After several attempts it starts. Starter motor sounds good and engine runs great. Batteries are fine and all connections look good. Any ideas?

[Dave Neptune]

Andrew the solenoid is probably getting weak~~IE poor contact or dirty contacts or even week key switch signal to the solenoid.

Dave Neptune

[Andrew]

Is the solenoid the little coil looking thing on the side of the starter motor?

[sastanley]

Andrew, Welcome..and, yes. I would remove the starter motor and get it rebuilt. It'll be about $100 and be good for another ten+ years.

[Andrew]

Put a new one on today and problems solved. Thanks for the help.

[sastanley]

Alright...great news!