Off the deep end, part II

[rickandlee]

So, what's behind the curtains The Wizard of Oz. Nice work space

[Oldlaxer1]

I wish I had the facilities to pull mine when I bought it if for nothing more than to inspect every nook and cranny and then repaint it properly. Now would also be a good time to replace the cutlass bearing and replace/improve your shaft seal. Also, the engine mounts/bolts may be compromised due to the water intrusion. Love the shop space.

[Ram41662]

Rick, that blocks off the third bay. I've put it off, but I really need to install a set of steel walls to separate the heated space from the non-heated space. In the meantime, I've just hung those tarps as an air break.

[Ram41662]

John, you are right on the spot. As she thaws out there there's some dripping around the cutlass bearing and the prop shaft. I'm not surprised by the shaft packing leaking, but it wouldn't be surprising if the cutlass bearing is shot too.

I'm concidering a dripless PSS seal as an upgrade over the stuffing box that's there now, so it would make sense to replace the cutlass.

[sastanley]

I know lots of people like the PSS seals, but I've got almost dripless with graphite (oops, I mean goretex, thanks tenders!) packing..it evaporates in the bilge almost as fast as it drips. It does run a bit hot during break-in, but after a while you can adjust it to just about zero maintenance.

[Ram41662]

That's an option I'll have to look into. I lean heavily toward the "more is better" or "while in doubt build it stout", over the top solutions. That might make more initial work and cost for me, but nothing I've built ever fails easily. Maybe I should governor it back a bit.

[tenders]

I have a "dripless" seal and the next time it has to be removed I'm replacing it with an old-fashioned stuffing box with newfangled packing (graphite or goretex or similar).

"Dripless" has never been dripless in my experience. Its failure mode is rare, but quick and catastrophic if it ever happens. Servicing requires removal of the coupling to the engine, a huge and inconvenient undertaking with my installation (V-drive). Mine has been installed since 1995 and removed twice, but I won't be reinstalling it if it has to come off again.

[Ram41662]

Nice to know. I'm starting to see the logic in using the old with a touch of the new to cure problem that might have existed in the original designs.

[JOHN COOKSON]

If you do pull the engine and rebuild it would be an excellent time to go to fresh water cooling if it is not the engine already.

TRUE GRIT

[Ram41662]

Thanks John. I was heading that way and was looking for input on the subject. Living in FL, I didn't worry about freezing, but I did worry about silt and salt mucking things up on my old boats. Since I'm "getting my feet wet" again, and knowledge has progressed a lot on 20 years, I see why a FWC system just makes sense.

[JOHN COOKSON]

Also a FWC cooled engine runs hotter than RWC cooled engine which makes them more efficient.

TRUE GRIT

[sastanley]

What's you take on adding an oil filter system and, for lack of a better term, a sealed engine cooling system?

I've looked at a couple of kits for these options. I do like the oil filter, but I'm not impressed with the "FWC" options I've seen so far. A simple shell and tube heat exchanger is the easy way to allow you to use a glycol coolant in the engine while pulling cool water from outside to carry off the heat, but why such a small unit with an equally small electric pump? Does the A4 run that cool? And at over $700, it seems a bit pricey.

Ram, I am going to give you my thoughts back in this thread since it has really taken off..no need to start a bunch of new threads..the process gets all disjointed in my opinion when we have 10 things going on in 10 threads.

If you log in to the index page of the forum (http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/index.php) it should take you to the "recent threads" area, which shows all threads from all sections in chronological order..most of us forum regulars use this view, since we are geeks and check the forum every few days or more..With multiple different threads running about your engine, we will (me anyway) lose track of what you are up to. If it is all in one thread, we can always search as the thread grows to recollect specifics.

Now, back to the oil filter & FWC:

There are a couple different ways to do FWC. This engine never had it 'stock', so all designs are add-ons, some more efficient/cleaner looking than others. Moyer Marine sells a nice kit but you need room at the front to run a PTO for the second water pump. There is another company (Indigo) that sells a system with a 2nd belt driven pump that is tucked up behind the alternator and lines up with it for boats with clearance issues (like the C-30, no way to put a PTO on the engine..it sits in a box). My dock neighbor with C-30 #355 has this design and it works..but now he's got two water pumps to maintain, and just had to replace ($$) one. Indigo also has an electrical pump design. I added FWC a few years ago and used the electrical pump for the antifreeze side, but built my own system from scratch, and bought a used SenDure HX from eBay that was super cheap. It has turned out just fine, especially with a few tweaks and tune ups as the design evolved and lessons were learned.
I think that most here recommend FWC (glycol in the block) especially on older engines that may have seen a lot of hours with sea water running thru them. The tiny creatures in the sea water eventually fill the crannies and crevices of the block and as you noted, now you have a motor full of silt and cooling efficiency is reduced. Also, some have experienced their motors rot from the inside out due to the corrosive effects of sea water over time.
No matter what, getting glycol in the block and the seawater out is beneficial to the longevity of the engine, IMO.

Oil filter..the engine was never designed with one, and many still don't have a filter and simply change it at xx hours (MMI recommends ~50.) I have the kit and like it, but it does complicate things and adds more 'parts' and places for oil to leak. - I believe you could go either way with this..Today's detergent oils are WAY better than the stuff available when these motors were designed, so an add-on filter system may not be necessary. I'd put that dough towards gauges and warning kits first if I were doing it over again, and move the oil filter down the priority list a bit.

Ok, there is my $0.02.

[sdemore]

Just to highlight one option on the FWC that was just described. I had issues with a second pump, so installed an electric pump on the fresh water side and use the engine driven pump for the seawater side. Just an option if you have issues with a second pump on the engine.

[Ram41662]

Great input, thanks Shawn & Steve. At this time it would take some serious intervention to prevent me from pulling this engine. I'm going to smoke and pressure test before breaking down, but once I start stripping it I'm going to bare block and doing heated degrwasing an an acid flush. Im also contemplating applying Polyphen coatings to the engine parts. It might be overkill (my middle name) but I've had great luck doing this to older engines to not only extend their lives but give the a performance boost. If I'm going through the process, then it only makes sense to add a FWC system, but I think I'm going down the DIY path.

[Ram41662]

Taking the mast off the deck...

No, I don't mean stepping it down, I mean taking it off the deck where I stored it for transport. I've forgotten how heavy one of these puppies can be. It came off much easier than it went on. The boatyard used a forklift without side shift, so I had to manhandle it into place.