Return to the home page...

Go Back   Moyer Marine Atomic 4 Community - Home of the Afourians > Owner Discussion Groups > Discussion Groups > Ericson

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #151   IP: 64.62.192.42
Old 11-05-2018, 03:35 PM
toddster toddster is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 458
Thanks: 9
Thanked 33 Times in 28 Posts
Well I for one am jealous, and so is my boat! (First winter out in six years...)

Furling line probably depends on the exact type and size of furler that you have. My Furlex uses 5/16 yacht braid. (Well, probably 8 mm.) On decommissioning, I noticed some chafe in the portion of line that usually stays on the drum... I'll have to think about that. Since failure of that particular line can be particularly catastrophic, it may be a good idea to replace it at regular intervals. Or maybe whenever one replaces the jib sheets? My spinnaker pole topping lift parted on the last cruise of the year - guess I'm replacing all running rigging in the spring. $Cha-$Ching!
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to toddster For This Useful Post:
CajunSpike (11-05-2018), sastanley (11-05-2018)
  #152   IP: 184.176.196.206
Old 11-05-2018, 04:57 PM
CajunSpike's Avatar
CajunSpike CajunSpike is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 209
Thanks: 204
Thanked 35 Times in 27 Posts
Did some searching and also came up with 5/16th line being used for that purpose.

Thanks for confirmation.
Think I'll go to the local West Marine for some good line that size.
It parted as I was pulling in to go home. Had to wind the furler in by hand.

There are only 2 lines I haven't changed since I got that boat...and that was one of them.
__________________
Bill L.
1972 Ericson 27
Hull #61
Atomic 4
Reply With Quote
  #153   IP: 74.107.30.100
Old 11-05-2018, 07:58 PM
sastanley's Avatar
sastanley sastanley is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Solomons, MD
Posts: 6,562
Thanks: 530
Thanked 320 Times in 251 Posts
As Toddster noted, if your jib is on a furler, that is one line you do NOT want to fail, because you'll need it in a blow to roll up.
I'd make that sucker a high tech (like double braid spectra) low stretch line as big a diameter as I could get it all into the drum, the larger diameter being for handling purposes back where I am grabbing it in the cockpit. Maybe even strip the cover in the drum area to accommodate the above.
__________________
-Shawn
"Twice Around" - '77 Catalina 30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold.
She is always happy with a clean bottom!

http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic3231_6.gif

Last edited by sastanley; 11-05-2018 at 11:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to sastanley For This Useful Post:
Administrator (11-05-2018), CajunSpike (11-05-2018)
  #154   IP: 138.207.175.58
Old 11-05-2018, 08:23 PM
Administrator's Avatar
Administrator Administrator is online now
MMI Webmaster
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Chestertown, MD (Langford Creek)
Posts: 1,927
Thanks: 983
Thanked 193 Times in 96 Posts
Were you a rigger in a prior life?

Bill
Reply With Quote
  #155   IP: 70.186.108.69
Old 11-05-2018, 10:21 PM
CajunSpike's Avatar
CajunSpike CajunSpike is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 209
Thanks: 204
Thanked 35 Times in 27 Posts
Enlarged pic of the furler hub. Seems like I have lots of space for rope.
Is it just me or is the angle of the rope a little high to get a good rope roll on the spool?

__________________
Bill L.
1972 Ericson 27
Hull #61
Atomic 4

Last edited by CajunSpike; 11-05-2018 at 10:33 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #156   IP: 74.107.30.100
Old 11-05-2018, 11:09 PM
sastanley's Avatar
sastanley sastanley is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Solomons, MD
Posts: 6,562
Thanks: 530
Thanked 320 Times in 251 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Administrator View Post
Were you a rigger in a prior life?

Bill
No, but I did work in a sail loft, and the rigging shop was downstairs. However, higher tech fibers like Spectra did not exist back in the day when I worked there...They were just putting kevlar in sails then and still learning how much that kevlar, while a wonderful synthetic fabric, did NOT like being exposed to UV one bit.
__________________
-Shawn
"Twice Around" - '77 Catalina 30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold.
She is always happy with a clean bottom!

http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic3231_6.gif

Last edited by sastanley; 11-05-2018 at 11:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #157   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 11-05-2018, 11:35 PM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 8,243
Thanks: 127
Thanked 1,074 Times in 722 Posts
Old saying about jib furlers when they first came out and were notoriously unreliable:
Sails go up and down, toilet paper goes round and round
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
  #158   IP: 64.62.192.42
Old 11-06-2018, 01:44 AM
toddster toddster is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 458
Thanks: 9
Thanked 33 Times in 28 Posts
Besides the line, it might also be worth contemplating the cleat. Iíve been clearing the furler line off in a clam cleat. (Which really belongs to the spinnaker sheet...) When the wind starts playing around over 20 knots, that line should be securely cleated off on a nearby horn cleat. But sometimes I forget. Having the 135% self-deploy in 25 knots is... sphincter tightening. Funny how it always does that in a narrow channel or a crossing situation. What a comedian. I do NOT want to find out what thatís like in 40 knots. Got a new dedicated rope clutch to install...
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to toddster For This Useful Post:
CajunSpike (11-06-2018)
  #159   IP: 64.62.192.42
Old 11-06-2018, 01:51 AM
toddster toddster is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 458
Thanks: 9
Thanked 33 Times in 28 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by CajunSpike View Post
Is it just me or is the angle of the rope a little high to get a good rope roll on the spool?
Hard to tell from one pic. Looks like you could swap positions between that fairlead and the lifeline terminal. A couple of years ago, I moved my lifeline all the way to the top (didnít previously have adjustable terminals.) Unless you have deck-sweeper sails, it seems like a good idea.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to toddster For This Useful Post:
CajunSpike (11-06-2018)
  #160   IP: 192.186.122.174
Old 11-06-2018, 09:43 AM
GregH's Avatar
GregH GregH is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Kingston, ON
Posts: 298
Thanks: 153
Thanked 22 Times in 20 Posts
While the fairlead on the pulpit maybe could be a little lower, from the angle of the pictures it looks to be a straight line running from the furler built-in fairlead.

That being said, adjusting the pulpit fairlead will do nothing for the position of the line on the furling drum if the furler fairlead is positioned too high (maybe bent?). Have a look at where that is in relation to the middle of the drum first is my suggestion.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to GregH For This Useful Post:
CajunSpike (11-06-2018)
  #161   IP: 70.186.108.69
Old 11-11-2018, 08:45 PM
CajunSpike's Avatar
CajunSpike CajunSpike is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 209
Thanks: 204
Thanked 35 Times in 27 Posts
Cracked rear rail

What do you suggest to do about this? The rear rail is cracked 3/4th of the way thru, on both sides, same spot. Was enjoying the day when I noticed I could see daylight thru the railing.




Got the furler and the rear mast tensioner rope changed this weekend.
__________________
Bill L.
1972 Ericson 27
Hull #61
Atomic 4

Last edited by CajunSpike; 11-11-2018 at 09:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #162   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 11-11-2018, 10:10 PM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 8,243
Thanks: 127
Thanked 1,074 Times in 722 Posts
In order of preference I would think
  1. Find a stainless welder with a portable TIG, have it welded, ground, acid washed and polished. Your local full service boat yard may be a source of referral.
  2. Buy a replacement stern rail and install. Perhaps research sailboat salvors and dismantlers in the recent hurricane areas, you might get lucky.
  3. Call Minney's in Newport Beach, CA, they have tons of rails. Inquire about shipping.
  4. Have a local railing manufacturer - - if one exists in your area - - make you one.
  5. Call Railmakers in Costa Mesa, CA. Big shipping again.
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others

Last edited by ndutton; 11-11-2018 at 10:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ndutton For This Useful Post:
CajunSpike (11-11-2018), sastanley (11-13-2018)
  #163   IP: 74.107.30.21
Old 11-13-2018, 11:41 PM
sastanley's Avatar
sastanley sastanley is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Solomons, MD
Posts: 6,562
Thanks: 530
Thanked 320 Times in 251 Posts
It is a small job, but a super important one. I second Neil's suggestions in the same order. Someone that can roll the equipment down the dock from their truck may be the cheapest in the long run..Do NOT rely on those rails to withhold any impacts or loads in the meantime..it will only worsen, or catastrophically fail.

Probably the absolute cheapest is, if you do not mind the labor, you could yank it off and drive it to a qualified welder and re-install it.
__________________
-Shawn
"Twice Around" - '77 Catalina 30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold.
She is always happy with a clean bottom!

http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic3231_6.gif
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to sastanley For This Useful Post:
CajunSpike (11-14-2018)
  #164   IP: 184.176.196.206
Old 11-14-2018, 11:31 AM
CajunSpike's Avatar
CajunSpike CajunSpike is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 209
Thanks: 204
Thanked 35 Times in 27 Posts
Have a friend with a machine shop.

Probably will end up removing it and bringing to him.
Hope its not held down by nuts/bolts cause pretty safe bet they will all be corroded thus making the removal a bi-atch.
__________________
Bill L.
1972 Ericson 27
Hull #61
Atomic 4

Last edited by CajunSpike; 11-14-2018 at 06:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #165   IP: 64.62.192.42
Old 11-14-2018, 01:52 PM
toddster toddster is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 458
Thanks: 9
Thanked 33 Times in 28 Posts
Seems like a no brainer - if you havenít already taken it off and rebedded it, it needs rebedding anyway. The only hard part with mine was gaining access to the bolts. (Apparently Ericson had a trained monkey contortionist, or they bolted all the deck hardware on before joining the hull and deck.) I had to cut a couple of access holes and installed deck plates in them. Behind which are now where the fore and aft extra anchor rodes live. Maybe the E27 doesnít have quite as long a reach into the ends as the E29? If youíre lucky.
Other uses for an extra hole might be a place to store a wash-down hose or a cockpit shower. A bad use (which Iíve seen) I think would be stereo speakers - speaker cones make poor water barriers. Unless theyíre in some kind of solid cabinet.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to toddster For This Useful Post:
CajunSpike (11-14-2018)
  #166   IP: 74.107.30.21
Old 11-14-2018, 11:44 PM
sastanley's Avatar
sastanley sastanley is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Solomons, MD
Posts: 6,562
Thanks: 530
Thanked 320 Times in 251 Posts
Cajun, in tearing apart at various times my own pulpits and stanchions, I have found that it is generally stainless screws and nuts, but I have on occasion found aluminum backing plates, that are sometimes threaded, instead of nuts/washers, most notably, on the stern pulpit of my Catalina. I've been able to remove and re-bed every one so far, but sometimes you need to squirt a good penetrate and let it sit...especially on those dissimilar metal bonds (SS bolt/screw into a aluminum threaded plate).

Also, almost every bolt was chopped off (with a hacksaw??), so the threads are buggered on the end and you need a wrench to get them off...or...if you don't have a helper, I clamp a pair of vice grips onto the nut, and then duct tape it to the underside of the deck so it hopefully doesn't crash into the boat when I get the bolt/screw out.
__________________
-Shawn
"Twice Around" - '77 Catalina 30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold.
She is always happy with a clean bottom!

http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic3231_6.gif

Last edited by sastanley; 11-15-2018 at 07:21 PM. Reason: fixing sphelling and added some more
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to sastanley For This Useful Post:
CajunSpike (11-15-2018)
  #167   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 11-15-2018, 03:15 AM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 8,243
Thanks: 127
Thanked 1,074 Times in 722 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by toddster View Post
. . . . . or they bolted all the deck hardware on before joining the hull and deck
100% of the builders I worked for installed all the deck hardware prior to mating the hull and deck.
edit:
And 100% of the hardware was thru-bolted.
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others

Last edited by ndutton; 11-15-2018 at 08:25 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #168   IP: 64.62.192.42
Old 11-15-2018, 06:16 PM
toddster toddster is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 458
Thanks: 9
Thanked 33 Times in 28 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
100% of the builders I worked for installed all the deck hardware prior to mating the hull and deck.
edit:
And 100% of the hardware was thru-bolted.
So you're saying I should give up on finding the trained monkey?

That reminds me of the exception that proves the rule. Or something. Ericson seems to have installed the hatches, both forward and companionway,with wood screws set into the upper deck skin. Albeit fairly thick portions of it. The connection was getting a bit brittle after 47 years. Replacing those with through-bolts required drilling a lot of access hole in the liner which then had to be plugged or covered with trim.
Reply With Quote
  #169   IP: 74.107.30.126
Old 11-15-2018, 07:23 PM
sastanley's Avatar
sastanley sastanley is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Solomons, MD
Posts: 6,562
Thanks: 530
Thanked 320 Times in 251 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by toddster View Post
Replacing those with through-bolts required drilling a lot of access hole in the liner which then had to be plugged or covered with trim.
Those cabin liners are a blessing and a curse aren't they?
__________________
-Shawn
"Twice Around" - '77 Catalina 30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold.
She is always happy with a clean bottom!

http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic3231_6.gif
Reply With Quote
  #170   IP: 70.186.108.69
Old 11-17-2018, 11:49 PM
CajunSpike's Avatar
CajunSpike CajunSpike is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 209
Thanks: 204
Thanked 35 Times in 27 Posts
Found a pic of the rail attachments in one of my videos.
Anybody want to place a bet if its straight into the glass or bolted?



Going to try to find out tomorrow.
__________________
Bill L.
1972 Ericson 27
Hull #61
Atomic 4
Reply With Quote
  #171   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 11-18-2018, 10:30 PM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 8,243
Thanks: 127
Thanked 1,074 Times in 722 Posts
Put me down for thru-bolts. If Ericson cheesed out like they did on my pal's engine stringers (see Build Quality thread in the off topic section) you may have machine screws tapped into an aluminum plate in the deck laminate. I'm really doubting it though.

If it's done right, it'll be thru-bolted with a stainless backing plate. Knowing Ericson I'll slightly modify my bet to thru-bolts with fender washers, split locks, and regular hex nuts, all ľ-20.

One other thing I see in your picture is absent fastening slot alignment. Back in the day all we used were slotted fasteners and every piece of deck hardware I installed had the slots aligned to the hardware, a First Yacht Quality touch. Linear gear like tracks had the slots aligned with the long dimension, rectangular gear had the slots aligned with the nearest edge, for round gear such as your rail mounting feet the slots were aligned to the tangent of the nearest edge. It's a minor thing and adds nothing for strength but an experienced eye notices it.
Attached Images
  
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others

Last edited by ndutton; 11-25-2018 at 09:21 PM. Reason: added pictures
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ndutton For This Useful Post:
CajunSpike (11-19-2018)
  #172   IP: 64.62.192.42
Old 11-20-2018, 05:47 PM
toddster toddster is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 458
Thanks: 9
Thanked 33 Times in 28 Posts
Through-bolted with 1/2" or 3/8" washers. BTDT.

When i tried to install backing plates in some of those places, I ran into the problem that the underside is curved - e.g. the outer bolts actually come through a fillet at the edge of the deck, so there is no flat surface for a backing plate to bear on. I punted and at least stuck some fender washers in, where they would fit. Maybe a backing plate could be installed with a heaping pile of thickened epoxy filler?

Last edited by toddster; 11-20-2018 at 05:54 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #173   IP: 70.186.108.69
Old 11-24-2018, 03:44 AM
CajunSpike's Avatar
CajunSpike CajunSpike is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 209
Thanks: 204
Thanked 35 Times in 27 Posts
And the answer is:
1 and 1/4" stainless bolts with a flat head, 7/16 stainless nuts and regular steel flat washers. Two of the legs were accessible by removing ventilation hoods, on the back edge of the transom. Another leg could be gotten to by sliding into the rear berth. There was a precut hole in the inner lining, giving access to the nuts.
The last leg was accessible thru the cockpit storage locker. Was able to get all the nuts off except one.
The storage locker leg had 1 bolt where the slot was not square. Could not hold backup to get the nut off since the nut on that particular bolt was stuck. Could not grab the bolt top with a vise grip either. Probably going back tomorrow and cut the bolt head with a dremel to get it off.

Did take the boat out for a couple hours but the wind direction and speed led to a lot of unpleasant hobby horsing. There was enough bouncing to make the drawers fall/pop out of the cabinetry and hit the deck.

Tangled the furler rope when replacing it so when I tried to pull out that sail, it got hung up.

Main halyard also got stuck 1/2 way up. Had to drop main, untangle it, and go up again.

__________________
Bill L.
1972 Ericson 27
Hull #61
Atomic 4

Last edited by CajunSpike; 11-24-2018 at 12:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #174   IP: 138.207.175.58
Old 11-24-2018, 07:48 AM
Administrator's Avatar
Administrator Administrator is online now
MMI Webmaster
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Chestertown, MD (Langford Creek)
Posts: 1,927
Thanks: 983
Thanked 193 Times in 96 Posts
A marine tech friend told me that you could get a rough sense of the age of a boat by looking to see whether Phillips head screws had been used in the deck hardware.

The slot alignment on my own boat is as per Neil's comments in an earlier post.

Bill

Last edited by Administrator; 11-24-2018 at 08:49 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Administrator For This Useful Post:
CajunSpike (11-24-2018)
  #175   IP: 70.186.108.69
Old 11-24-2018, 07:49 PM
CajunSpike's Avatar
CajunSpike CajunSpike is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 209
Thanks: 204
Thanked 35 Times in 27 Posts
Just when I was about to give up, since the remaining nuts/bolts would just spin with 1 person, somebody friendly appeared out of nowhere and offered to help. I must be living right.

Got the last three bolts off with his assistance.

When lifting the rail off the boat, one of the broken legs came off in my hand. I just broke off the opposite end to make it easy to load into the car.

Got it home now. Also found one of the other legs has a cracked weld on the hull end. This thing must have taken a pretty big hit at some point.
__________________
Bill L.
1972 Ericson 27
Hull #61
Atomic 4

Last edited by CajunSpike; 11-24-2018 at 07:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What tools do I need/How should I prep for cleaning / fixing the carb this weekend LemonShark2 Fuel System 51 04-16-2016 11:39 PM
Exhaust (hot) leaks @ manifold nipple- 1972 A4 mtnsailor Exhaust System 4 09-20-2013 11:13 PM
starting after fixing tom hansen Troubleshooting 12 01-07-2013 09:32 PM
1972 Atomic 4 bigd14 For Sale - Engines and Engine Parts 0 10-20-2009 01:31 AM
1972 Columbia 30' with A-4 EugD Drive Train / Propellers 1 05-19-2005 10:27 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


Universalģ is a registered trademark of Westerbeke Corporation

Copyright © 2004-2018 Moyer Marine Inc.

All Rights Reserved