No Room for Stuffing Box Service

[Bigeye]

The stuffing box on my 1974 Sabre 28-1 with its 1974 A4 needs to either have the packing redone or tightened. I have no idea the last time it was done as this is my 4th season with the boat. It's dripping a drop every second when the shaft is turning and less often when the shaft is not turning!

Access is very difficult through the starboard lazarette as some of you might know so I asked the yard to repack it. "Sure", they said about an hour to do it and then an adjustment when the boat goes back in. BUT, after seeing it, the mechanic said there wasn't enough room between the nut and the coupling to move the big nut far enough to pick out the stuffing, repack and retighten. Sure enough, the frighteningly rusted coupling with set screw is an inch or less away from the big nut.



Assuming they can get the set screw out and the shaft out of the coupling, my options appear to be:
1. Disconnect the coupling and pull the 7/8" shaft back
2. Disconnect the coupling and pull the A4
3. Just try and tighten the thin jamb nut and then see what's doing when she splashes.

What are the chances of getting the shaft out without damage and the coupling off with out damaging the engine output plate?

Option 1. Would allow replacing the hose with a thicker walled hose and better hose clamps. Maybe shorten the hose so that there is more room next time. The cutlass bearing is OK so we wouldn't pull the shaft all the way out unless it's grooved beyond repair. Any downside to this?

Option 2. Would allow me much better temporary access to the engine so that I could more easily replace the coupling and perform some maintenance and even paint her. I love working on my A4. This would also let me replace the engine mounts which I can't even see they are so short or compressed. My concern is that with new mounts, the engine would be too high and would never align properly again, or is there enough play in the cutlass and shaft log? There is no room to move the engine forward.

Option 3. Would appear to be the easiest although should I worry about scoring the shaft? Also, this maintains the status quo with the coupling and mounts and I wouldn't have better temporary access to the engine.

Sorry for being so long-winded. Any comments, observations or suggestions would be welcome.

Thanks,
Ira
Morning Star 2 28-1 #104

[ndutton]

Here's what I would do

. . . and you ain't gonna like it.

The present installation is unserviceable. It's amazing what you find on boats.

• From the position of the clamps it does not look to me like there's enough length on the hose to shorten it sufficiently so that's off the table.
• Sliding the engine forward would work but may bring on alignment issues depending on the angle of the stringers.
• Even if you were able to find a way to get enough separation between the shaft coupler and the stuffing box it looks to me like it's in a very difficult area to work.

Therefore . . . .wait for it . . . . . I'd get rid of the stuffing box and put in a PSS shaft seal. It looks to me like you're a prime candidate for one. You'll need around 6½" from the back of the existing hose to fit one. Getting the old assembly out of there will not be pleasant. I expect the shaft is frozen in the coupler and you do not have the room between it and the stuffing box for the usual press operation to remove it.

I'd get out the Sawzall and cut the shaft clean through right behind the coupling. Then I'd cut the stuffing box hose right behind the gland assembly and remove it in its entirety. Now there's room to remove the coupler so the shaft stump can be pressed out in the shop.

Install the PSS shaft seal, new shaft, new coupler if necessary (it looks like it might be) and you'll be far better off, although a little lighter in the wallet, than you were before. Of course, this work should be done out of the water.

By the way, there is NO play or adjustment in the shaft log or strut/cutless bearing. Their alignment is fixed. With the PSS I'd still consider sliding the engine a little forward and remounting if it's feasible. You're replacing the shaft anyway, may as well get one a little longer.

Estimated hit to the beer fund doing all the work yourself and depending on haulout fees ~ $1500 - $2500, the greater amount includes a coat of bottom paint as long as you're there.

[romantic comedy]

I am thinking that it may be even worse. Will the coupling seperate from the engine, in a usable state? If so, then -what Neil said.

If not, then you might consider wasting the coupling and saving the shaft, if possible.

What will a new coupling cost versus the shaft. Maybe you will need both?

For cutting these things, dont forget a grinder. I have a 4 inch makita, that I love. If possible there are great air grinders too.

I am also wondering, if you completely remove the hose, how much room would that give you?

Last thought. You can still run it the way it is, I guess. It may be a little risky. I am thinking that if you are going to need a new shaft, and seal, and coupling... Not that I recommend that.

How much time and money do you have in the budget?

[Mo]

Boys,
I'm convinced now that I have to take a run at my stuffing box as well. I have a pic of it....was taking a pic of something else and missed...but I found one. Let me know if you see a nightmare in the making here as well please.

[romantic comedy]

Mo, have you serviced it before? The usual questions apply.

Leak? drip? get hot? etc..
In water, or on land?

Looks like you can give a spray with rust bust and have at it. It is hard to tell the room you have, from that picture.

[Mo]

RC,
Gave it one adjustment in 6 years. Wasn't leaking when I took it out but was thinking it was time to repack. Looked like teflon in there (white) but it didn't drip while the shaft wasn't turning...only dripped when the shaft turned.

[ndutton]

I'm not saying anything new but for the sake of the conversation servicing the stuffing box aka packing gland requires room to slide it up the shaft to access the innards. The more distance it can be slid, the easier it is to service, the easier it is to service the more often it will be done.

Access comes into play too. If you have to contort yourself into the space behind - or in the case of V drives, under - the engine often leaving only one hand free to work, the difficulty is compounded.

Combine the issues of access and installation (the topic of this thread) and it's human nature that the regular service of this critical part of your boat will be put off until it can no longer be avoided or when the point is reached it keeps you awake at night.

So my friends as I said earlier, if it were me either of the described difficulties would have me thinking PSS or Lasdrop seal rather than a conventional gland.

OK, picture time. Y'all must get weary of us Catalina 30 guys talking up our boats, great engine access, ~ 7000 built, originally designed around the A-4, blah, blah, blah. We also enjoy excellent packing gland access which makes it easy to service. I did mine in the water two weeks ago, probably took less than 15 minutes actual working time, shipped less than 5 teaspoons of water aboard in the process, suffered no cramps and had a cold brewski within arm's reach. No PSS shaft seal for me, my situation doesn't indicate the need. My heart goes out to others situated differently.

[Cool Beans]

Oh, the can of worms you are going to open up. . .and when I say "can", I'm thinking of something like a 55 gallon drum

. . .

. . .

I'm thinking at 28 feet, you could get away with an outboard on a bracket and just pull the A4 and glass over the shaft log next haul out

Or just live with it for now. A drop a second running is about right, and a less when sitting is within the scope of "normal" for a stuffing box.

That's my 2 cents. . .remember what you paid for it!

[marthur]

Bigeye,

Unlike the others, I wouldn't give up on the shaft just yet. They have a lot more sense than I do, so when you end up going their route you can feel free to curse my name. But until you see that it is damaged, it could be usable. Also, the PSS rep told me that you can use the PSS Shaft seal on a scored shaft. So if you are lucky you might save the cost of the shaft. On my teacher's salary time is more plentiful than money, so there is my bias

Here is the rub: my coupler looked A LOT cleaner than yours and was so solidly frozen on that I gave up trying to separate them a few years ago. Fortunately, I didn't need to separate it, it would merely have eased another job. Even with no visible rust it was frozen on.

The easiest way to separate the shaft from the coupling would be to cut it off. If you can get a cut off wheel to it, cut it almost all the way through on both sides. Then use a cold chisel to separate the halves. Make sure you support the prop shaft when striking the chisel! With the coupling off, you can inspect the shaft and make some choices.

If you can't get a cut off wheel in there, use your drill to drill a line of holes as close as possible down the length of the coupler. Tedious and you will use up several drill bits and some cutting oil (use any light oil if you don't have cutting oil). Finish by splitting it with the chisel.

Unless you get a clean split the complete length of the coupler, it might take a little effort to separate the shaft and coupling. Try this: Apply your penetrating oil. Then take the bolts from the coupling and replace them with bolts that are longer. Put a socket between the shaft and the output coupling. Install the longer bolts and tighten.

Be REALLY careful of the engine side of the coupler. You don't want to have to replace it.

That was my encouraging thought. My discouraging thought is that you might end up pulling the motor into the cabin to get enough access to do this job no matter what you choose to do. If that is the case, try sliding it forward a couple of inches. You might be able to align things and save all the shaft work for another day.

I definitely wouldn't be afraid to move the motor forward to gain better access. This will be a time consuming and unsatisfying job with rotten access. Moving the motor may be time consuming but the job gets much more pleasant job with proper access.

Good luck brother!

[edwardc]

Yeah, being one of the aforementioned v-drive guys, I envy you Catalina guys for your shaft access.

Just so you don't get too complacent, it looks like you're missing a second hose clamp on the shaft tube end of the hose.

[ndutton]

Yeah, I knew posting the picture would elicit such an observation. It's not for lack of trying. With the shallow shaft angle there's no room for a second clamp. I tried.

When I replace the hose (next haulout?) I'll get in there with a grinder and try to make some accommodation.

[Administrator]

The stuffing box on my 1974 Sabre 28-1 with its 1974 A4....

Suggest you give Glen Chaplin at Sabre Yachts a call at 207.655.3831, or you can use their instant email form. He's a legendary source of technical info for Sabre's fleet, and they sold a bunch of those 28-1's.

Bill

[CalebD]

It always starts out like this

For me it was: "We need to replace our Cutless bearing."
My boat is even older than yours by 7 years. Your shaft, stuffing box, Cutless bearing, shaft log hose are all probably 40 years old. The time is nigh to address this potential leak point in your hull.

We found that our old brass shaft had been badly scored at the Cutless bearing interface. That made the job simpler: cut the shaft.
We did all the work ourselves even though some of the work required a contortionist and a few trips to the prop shop.
New materials costs were not really that high.
New SS shaft $250
New shaft log hose $20
New large hose clamps $20
New Cutless bearing $50
New packing material $20
Face and fit old coupling $75

If you need a new coupling add another $300. The PSS shaft seal Neal is recommending is only about $300. http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?...2328&id=140509
More like $400 if you buy it West Marine.
Of course you will pay a lot more if your boat yard does the labor.

Here is a long winded description of how my drive train project went: http://www.odalisque.us/2011/12/2011...train-rebuild/
As you can see from the pictures of my boat we at least have some access to the stuffing box.
Neal consistently gives good advice even if he is missing a hose clamp on his stuffing box. We've all got a screw loose somewhere!

[ndutton]

Neal consistently gives good advice even if he is missing a hose clamp on his stuffing box. We've all got a screw loose somewhere!

Aaarrrgghhhh!! Just call me the Sawzall king. Tain't nuthin that cain't be fixxed with a Sawzall.

[CalebD]

Aaarrrgghhhh!! Just call me the Sawzall king. Tain't nuthin that cain't be fixxed with a Sawzall.

Sawzall took all of 2 minutes to cut our old bronze shaft in half.
Voila!