water in fuel - again....

[sastanley]

Well, it turns out a new o-ring in the fuel fill was not the solution I thought it was a couple years ago. The fitting itself wasn't even tightening enough to get the o-ring to do any sealing, so I had water in the fuel again. I've been battling it for a few weeks now (since we didn't get the boat out until late June anyway! ) - and I hope to have finally solved the problem once and for all.

I've been trying to let the filters do their job, and they have, but there was so much water in the tank, they'd simply get overwhelmed and fill up and the engine would shut down. So, I'd drain the filters, popping the inline off too and draining it, drain the Racor, drain the carb and start all over again..each iteration of this over the last couple weeks has ranged from 45 minutes of run time to 90 minutes of run time.

So, today, I went over after work, and pumped the remaining 12 gallons of fuel/water mixture out of the boat, and figured I should pull the tank and make sure it is clean. A couple weeks ago I replaced the fuel fill to a newer style with integrated vent...one less hole in the boat, and a shorter hose run to boot, since the old vent went to the transom.

So, I had about 12 gallons of uncontaminated ethanol free fuel left, so I put it in the tank and fired her up. Started right up and ran great...of course it did every other time too. I'll do one more draining of the Racor, and I replaced the inline filter and drained the mech. fuel pump bowl too..it was mostly water and probably the real reason the engine was quitting.

Once the tank was empty, the removal of the tank simply involves unscrewing the hold down clamps and getting hoses off. I drug a cotton t-shirt around inside the tank to clean it and make sure there was no water leftover. I was able to pump all but just a few ounces of fuel out thru the gauge sender hole.

Here are some pics! Oh, the new fuel fill is totally plastic, so does not require a ground wire either!

Now, If I can get past these hurtles, I could maybe get on to things like the windows.

Happy Summer everybody!!

[Jimmy]

Shawn
From the looks of the picture, I'm guessing a 10-12 gallon tank? What kind of rang can you get with that?
I'm also intrigued by the fuel cap. How proud does it sit above deck?

I ask these questions as my vessel is pushing 40 years old and I'm always on the lookout for the next item(s) that are to be replaced &/or upgraded.
Shhhhhh...don't tell the Admiral 😀

[sastanley]

Jimmy, that is an 18 gallon tank made by Moeller. It is within a couple inches a direct replacement for the aluminum one that failed the first year I had the boat. It BARELY fits thru the quarterberth cutout. If I am burning 1 gallon/hour I should get 18 hours of run time??

This season has been so sporadic, I haven't even checked the hour meter to see how long I've gotten the motor to run as compared to how much fuel I've burned (the tank was full at the beginning of the season). I filled 2 jerry cans and about 1-2 gallons in a 3rd today, so I am guessing about 12 gallons is what I pulled out. There may be a gallon of water in there too..we'll see as it separates out.

The fuel fill is a Perko..I got mine at Amazon. Be careful...there are a few different models..the newer ones are sealed and have no vent. This one qualifies for use in our old boats with an "integrated vent". It is about 1/2" proud of the deck. I had a big ol' nasty SeaDog stainless fitting before..this one will be much easier on the toes.

[ndutton]

Shawn,
I need to take a look at the combination fill/vent considering that on our boats it is located in a spot that can be underwater on starboard tack. Locally we enjoy 20 knot winds every afternoon and we do like our big gennys so a rails-under ride is not uncommon. In addition, on my boat at rest water pools at the fill. Having an open vent there seems risky.

I'm sure you scrutinized the design carefully. Can you shed some light on how it vents and keeps water out at the same time?

[sastanley]

Neil, Agree on all points. I try not to bury the rail, but it can happen.

The vent screen (inside the hinged cap itself) is supposed to be one of those that will vent vapors, but not allow water droplets to pass through. I also agree that with extended submersion it would probably not keep water out, and they warn you of that.

The cap is hinged and snaps a relatively tight seal over the fill (the vent tube is recessed inside the fill tube itself.) The trick is it has a type of pressure relief valve, and if I correctly understand how it works, it will allow vapors out if there is enough pressure to lift the valve, but under normal conditions, gravity keeps the vent closed to keep outside elements out, if they can around the cap, up hill and get thru the screen, which is the first defense.

I was slightly leery of installing this cap, since my boat collects a little water on that side too, which is exactly how water got in the tank before. However, the fill neck is proud of the deck by 3/8" or so?? and the old fill neck was flush and water rolled right down the side deck and into the tank almost unabated! This new cap was relatively inexpensive, and in my case, I hope better than the old one since the non-contacting o-ring was the only defense and was no longer working. If it turns out to be a piece of junk, I've only wasted $20, and I can try something else. I have not done any thorough testing, and maybe I should douse it with water while the other end of the hoses are hanging in a bucket and report back.

[ndutton]

Thanks Shawn, that's all I need to know. More complication, more moving parts (valve) that work fine when new, you know the drill. I appreciate the attempts at continued innovation but sometimes . . . . . You already know my opinions on ACR's isolators and the like. Fine for many, not for me.

This kinda reminds me of folding and feathering props and their frequent problems after time. Not much to go wrong with a solid hunk of bronze.

I notice this new vent/fill made a significant change to the tank vent system on your boat when the vent was not the problem in the first place. I hope it works for you and glad it wasn't pricey (perhaps another red flag?) if it doesn't. I know you'll keep us apprised.

[sastanley]

Yeah..I know Neil..it actually simplified the vent a lot..but who knows if the overall result is the desired one? The 1977 vent hose was due for a replacement anyway, so at least that hand was forced with this installation.

The vent is a simple mechanical device, and will require periodic inspection and cleaning which can be done pretty easily, and without disassembly of the cap.

Here is some additional info on the product.

http://www.perko.com/catalog/fills_and_vents/138/vented_fills_for_1-1_2_hose_-_straight_neck/

[Dave Neptune]

Nice but

Shawn, the installation of the new filler looks nice and you'll see if burying a rail will keep her sealed sometime maybe.

The thing I do not like is the tank, I would prefer it mounted securely below decks.

Dave Neptune

[Ajax]

Dang, must be nice to have your fuel tank so accessible!
I'd have to remove my engine and disassemble the galley to remove mine!

[sastanley]

Ajax, It barely fits in the quarterberth cut-out, hence the discussion with Jimmy earlier about getting the biggest one I could without further cutting up the boat. I do have to empty the tank (those $8 orange pumps are not real fast but they are effective. Each 5 gallon jerry can is just about time for a beer break..) so that I can remove it without sloshing fuel out of the thing.

There are some advantages to having the engine under the galley.

thanks, Dave! I was sure to re-install it correctly!