Trouble Starting: "Chunk" sound

[ceryesb]

Hello all,

I've got an old atomic 4 in a 72' Pearson 30, and recently, I get a loud "chunk!" sort of sound the first couple times I try and start it up. The usual patten when you hit the starter is one loud "chunk," followed by nothing. I guess the starting motor sort of seizes up. Then when you try again you might get a "chunk," along with a half-hearted attempt to turn over (which, altogether, sounds awful); then on the third or fourth try the engine seems to start up pretty well, and then everything is perfect. It doesn't seem to matter if the engine is warm or cold.
It seems like maybe a gear is slipping somewhere related to the starting motor? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Brent

[rigspelt]

Weak battery? Solenoid moving but not enough juice to run the starter?

[Al Schober]

I'd pull the starter motor and give it some TLC - or take it to someone qualified to give it some TLC. Sounds like it's due.

Al Schober

[ceryesb]

Thanks,

The battery is fairly new, and since it eventually starts up I tend not to think thats the cause. As for the solenoid, I was looking over this post: http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1913 but calling it a "click" is generous. It sounds mechanical and its pretty loud. Sorry for the lack of technical detail.
Today or tommorow I'll try the screw driver solenoid short trick. I suppose if my symptoms go away I'll try and clean up or replace the starter solenoid. Otherwise I'll get the starter motor serviced or replaced.

[sastanley]

The screwdriver short still engages the solenoid...you are bypassing the start part of the wiring by going directly to the solenoid stud from the big battery stud..If I have my parts correct, the solenoid is what moves the gear into the flywheel. The shorting trick allows you to be 'right there' to better diagnose the sound's location.

I'd still pull it anyway..a 'click' usually indicates that the solenoid has not engaged the gear and the starter doesn't turn over...yours may be partially engaging and not meshing properly and jamming in the flywheel

[Al Schober]

On second thought I think the gear is engaging the flywheel just fine. But the solenoid electrical contacts are probably shot and not passing current to the starter motor. If you open up the solenoid, you'll find a moving washer and some fixed electrical contacts. Clean the fixed contacts and flip the washer over and things should be good to go.

[ceryesb]

I pulled off the solenoid, cleaned up the contacts and flipped the washer. I put the solenoid back on, tried to start her up and got... silence. So I'm in a little worse shape than where I started, which I guess is the usual course of things.
I took another look at the solenoid and noticed some of the solder had came loose, so rather than messing around with the old one, I ordered a new solenoid. I put the new solenoid on but still nothing but silence.
I'm not too sure where to go next with this. I'm pretty sure I have the wires the same way they were: red wire and battery cable together on the larger contact, yellow wire on the "(S)" contact. The blower and other electronics seems to work fine. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Brent

[ceryesb]

I cleaned off some coorosion from terminals and cables and did other various things, and one way or another I've got the engine trying to start again, but still with the same problem I had initially. Since I've now replaced the solenoid, it looks like that wasn't the culprit.
I recorded the start sound on my cell phone. It takes about three trys to get the engine started: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1hB8iF-sAA
Is there any chance this is a battery issue? The battery is only a year old. If not, I guess my next step is to replace the starter. To me, the noise sounds consistant with Shawn's guess, that perhaps the starter gear isn't meshing properly with the flywheel, and getting jammed up.
For whatever its worth, this issue coorelates somwhat with some misadventures related to the spark plugs. When we replaced them, we had a couple mixed up, and the engine backfired/poped a couple times before we sorted it out.

Thanks,
Brent

[67c&ccorv]

Not sure which starter motor you have (Prestolite or Delco Remy):

I listened on Youtube and it sounds to me like the Bendix drive gear is hanging up after the motor starts - my guess is the drive needs to be cleaned and lubricated.

Often the Bendix drive spring gives up after a number of years of useage...more often than not due to corrosion.

Cheers!

[wbarrett46]

Power boat Newbee Starter/Solenoid issues Loud CLICK

Read the threads, OMG, do we all have the same issues with boats or what? bought a powerboat Celebrity 188 bowrider, Mercruiser 228 1985 yr. Runs Good, been to lake a dozen times this year, cold starting but started every time, little extra gas. Went on vacation left boat at the house for 10 days. It rained and the boat got water in the aft well area under the motor ( left plug in...oops !) came back battery dead, took 10 min to drain water. Charged battery back to 13 volts, is holding there, replaced pos cable new, not sure if I tightened to much on solenoid as it has a sliding type bolt, sounds like that is supposed to be that way, I see some rust on the starter & Solenoid, are they ruined? I have good key switch action, and LOUD "CLICK". and 13 volts at battery, 12.56 volts at circuit and same at Solenoid. Starter not turning over though? Where do I start now and where direction should I head?

[ndutton]

wbarrett,
Sounds like the contacts inside the solenoid might be sintered or corroded. I'm sure the starter isn't locked up because if it were the voltage would drop dramatically when trying to start.

[rigspelt]

Would it help to get the multimeter out and check voltages, or is the gang thinking this is all mechanical?

[thatch]

"meter reading"

Rigs,
Since I have had training in both the military an and private industry, I hear your question as being "rhetorical". In other words, voltage drop checking is the first thing I would do. By checking the voltage at all of the available spots in a circuit while "under load", the offending component or connection will usually be revealed. In the case of a starter that won't turn, I would check the high current terminal on the starter side of the solenoid for a reasonable voltage signal while in the "start" mode. If you get close to a 12 volt reading and no rotation then the starter itself is most likely the problem. If on the other hand you get little or no voltage, again in start mode, then there is a problem in the solenoid or the wiring or the switch feeding it. Learning to "circuit check" with a meter is well worth the effort.

[wbarrett46]

Starter issues

Thanks everyone, for the tips, I will troubleshoot again Saturday aternoon and report my findings. By the way I see most all of you sail by the boat pic's, I used to race J-24's on the West Coast between Santa Barbara and Ventura.

[ceryesb]

Regarding my chunk noise -
I lubricated the bendix gear and flywheel. I'm pleased (and somewhat suprised) to report that I haven't been getting the chunk noise. I wonder if I'm completely out of the woods, since this wasn't a very satisfying fix, but for now I won't be picky.

Thanks for all of your help