Running the engine out of the water?

[gfatula]

I have a "new" rebuilt Moyer A-4 that I used for less than 10 hours last season. Our mooring can be easily sailed from and we don't use the engine much. I did install a heat exchanger when I installed the engine and it has been working fine. Thanks Don! My question is about running the engine while the boat is "on the hard". Since there is no raw water in the raw water pump will I need to do something about lubricating that impeller if I want to run the engine briefly. The heat exchanger is full of antifreeze as is the engines cooling system so the pump that circulates coolant is fine. With no raw water for the raw water pump to pump I could damage that impeller. I suppose I could just loop the raw water hose and fill the loop with antifreeze, too. Any suggestions?

George Fatula

[Pater]

running on empty...running dry

I don't know the layout of your boat or the muffler/exhaust system but it sounds to me that you face the same issue I've been struggling with my raw water cooled A4, IE: Trying to run it when on land. I've been given 2 solutions. #1 is to get a 5 gallon bucket from Lowes, or Home Depot, or the like, remove the hose from the seacock, fashion an extension to let it reach the bottom of the bucket and fill the bucket with fresh water. Then with a garden hose add water as needed to keep the bucket from running dry once the motor is running (a twist control spray nozzle works great to control the refill rate). #2 is for winterizing. Follow the steps above except when it comes to filling the bucket with water. Instead, put two-three gallons of the Pink RV/Boat antifreeze in the bucket, and crank until it blows out the exhaust. Shut it down,make sure the seacock is closed then re attach the inlet hose to the barb on the seacock and put a tag on your engine key fob to remind you to open the seacock in the spring before starting the engine on launch day.

[rigspelt]

The bucket/garden hose trick works for me. Put a T-fitting in the raw water inlet hose with a ball valve on the 3rd side of the T leading to a 3 foot section of hose. Put the end of that hose in a bucket in the boat with a garden hose. Close the seacock and open the ball valve to the bucket. Start the engine with no water in the bucket. Once the engine starts, the friend watching the garden hose turns it on and makes sure the water flow from the hose matches the engine water pump uptake.

[Kelly]

Just an idea, but couldn't you remove the raw water pump impeller and run the engine up to operating temperature before shutting it down without engendering risk (engine with heat exchanger)?

Kelly

[rigspelt]

Wouldn't I want to fill the seawater side of a FWC system with antifreeze during winterizing, to ensure that any water left in the raw water plumbing would not freeze and damage HE or hoses? Unless one is sure the raw water side is empty from seacock through HE to exhaust, by draining the HE, raw water pump (impeller out), and exhaust system (waterlift needs a drain plug like the MMI muffler). But seems simpler just to flush with freshwater and then push in some RV antifreeze.

[Don Moyer]

George,

I'm sort of wondering why you would plan to run the engine while on the hard over winter. In many cases, running the engine for short periods of time (not under any kind of load) creates minor problems associated with valves sticking etc. If you have some reason for needing to run the engine, I would follow your idea of providing raw water, not only to protect the pump from running cavitated but to cool the exhaust system as well. Without some supply of raw water, you won't really be able to run the engine very long.

Don

[gfatula]

Thank you all for your replies. Don, I don't have to run the engine. If running without a load is a bad idea I can wait. When the boat is in the water I can run it to "tinker" while it is tied up. I was thinking it would be an opportunity to work on the engine with no thoughts about anything else. Last spring I replaced a siezed engine with your rebuilt. The initial attempt to start the newly installed engine came on July 3rd at about 5:00 pm. I had family aboard and we had dinner reservations at the Ilsford Dock Restaurant at 7:30. When I was finally satisfied that I had everything ready I asked someone up in the cockpit to turn the key and the "new" Moyer Marine A-4 fired right up. Whew! They were unaware that I was still completing my install. Someone handed me a beer and we made our dinner date. Everything has run well since. Thanks again Don!

I have drained everything. The plug is out of the waterlift muffler. The anode/plug is out of the HE. The raw water seacock is open and drained. I did manage to install a high loop with an antisiphon valve from the raw water seacock through a strainer to the raw water pump. The loop travels up beside the cockpit wall and back down. I did have it clamped in place but removed a clamp so I could pull it down to check the antisiphon valve. It is stiff enough to remain in place and does not rattle. The outlet that runs to the muffler is disconnected at the HE. I have not removed the raw water pump impeller. I plan to use a turkey baster and inject some antifreeze into the waterlift muffler until it spills out the open plug. I will do the same for the HE until it spills out of the open plug. I was going to flush the raw water pump the same way. I suppose taking the impeller out is the "gold standard" but it is a bit tight and would be a lot simpler if I just flushed it with antifreeze. What do you think? I can "easily" insert antifreeze into the inlet side of the raw water pump. ( nothing is easy. Where did the term "engine room" originate? It is not a space I am familiar with on an Islander 28 ) I can disconnect the outlet hose from the pump and let antifreeze run out of the outlet nipple on the pump, (if it will). Should that satisfy jack frost? If I must I will remove the impeller. Thanks.

George

[gfatula]

update on putting antifreeze through the raw water pump

Don,

Here is an update on putting antifreeze through the raw water pump. I disconnected both hoses at the pump and put a short piece of hose on the inlet side. I filled that hose with antifreeze using the turkey baster and used the engine's hand crank to flush the pump.. All is well. I will install a T fitting so next year I can simply run the engine with some antifreeze and not have to disconnect any of the plumbing.

Thanks,

George

[Don Moyer]

George,

I'm glad everything went well with your installation.

You've done a great job winterizing everything, but next year, you could save a lot of time by doing what most folks do, which is to draw a couple gallons of RV antifreeze in through the strainer and raw water pump, the sea water side of the HE, the water lift muffler and the rest of the exhaust system. If it's difficult to run the engine, you can remove the plugs and turn the engine over on the starter to draw in the RV antifreeze, but in that case, you would want to remove the drain from the water lift muffler so as not to risk flooding the exhaust system.

Don

[Dave O]

Personally I remove the impeller each winter for the following reasons:

1. If I leave the impeller in over the winter the blades become distorted. They are quite compressed in the chamber. This allows the blades to return to a more relaxed state
2. I like to inspect the impeller carefully for cracks or nicks
3. The instruction book says to do so

So my normal procedure is to drain water through the various (4) drain plugs, run antifreeze through the system, remove the back plate and impeller (catching as much antifreeze as I can), and replace the cover plate but not the impeller. In the spring I reinstall the impeller.

[Don Moyer]

Great, George!

Here's wishing you a wonderful season next year.

Don

[gfatula]

Dave,

That is good advice, thanks. I might follow it. My boat's engine space is more accessible since I replaced its old engine. I modified the way the companionway steps and their supports are fastened and everything comes out easily now. This allows me to reach over the engine fairly comfortably and access the raw water pump. The FW pump is at the "old" raw water pump's location and being down behind things is a bit less accessible but reachable. I will need to remove a couple of hoses but that is part of the deal. Reliability is everything!

George s/v Tundra Down