Need A4 mechanic near Keyport, NJ

[forte]

I recently bought an Pearson Triton. The yard mechanic says the engine needs replacing but I want someone who knows the A4 to take a look at it first.

[sastanley]

Hi forte, welcome to the forum.

What do you know about engines...is the boat on the hard? Have you run it at all? How reputable is the boatyard mechanic?

Do you want to dig into it yourself? I didn't know anything about A4's when I bought my boat a couple of years ago...Now, I don't think a mechanic could tell me anything I can't figure out myself based on what I've learned thru this forum and using the Moyer Manual.

The A4 only needs fuel, air, spark, compression to run. Those are easy to check. Before we get into the details, you'll need to let us know if you are ready for them.

[Baltimore Sailor]

Welcome aboard! There's nothing we like more than resurrecting A4s with one foot in the grave.

Pictures always help. I think you need five posts before you can post photos (if I'm not thinking of another forum), so pad your count with "me too"'s till you get there, then post away with photos of your engine. Remember to resize them from the original so that they'll fit the screen OK.

There's lots of help available here. Unless your engine has been a mooring weight for the past year, we can probably help you to get it up and running like new, and then you can spend that repowering money on something fun.

[pad]

Forte - I guess the first question is "why?", as in "why" does the engine need replacing? Is it frozen solid, i.e. it spent the last year under water, or is it because the mechanic just doen't want to mess with it. Anyway, I not far from Keyport, and if you are willing to get your hands dirty, I'll give you a hand. No, I'm not a professional mechanic, but I've rebuilt my A4 (with Don's help), as well as many other engines from motorcycles to Ferraris - as said before, "fuel, air, spark, and compression..." It not really difficult...

[forte]

I bought the boat near the end of the season. I sailed it up to Keyport from Forked River over three days. The engine seemed to run fine although I would not know what its optimum performance should be. It needed to be nursed to start but once going ran well. It did need to be choked to restart even when warm. This was something the old owner warned me about.

Now the boat is on land at Morgan Marina. While winterizing the boat the marina checked the compression and said that it was low, indicating a need for new valves and piston rings. They also said that they had trouble starting and could not restart. He was hesitant to trust what was originally a salt water cooled engine that was 45 years old. Talking to someone at Moyer Marine he said that the marina mechanic may not have realized that the A4 is a low compression engine. My impression was that the marina mechanic was not familiar with the A4 and just did not want to bother with an old gasoline engine. His recommendation, of course, was to replace it with a diesel.

I do not know much about engines but am willing, indeed eager, to learn. I would not know how to judge if the engine would need to be replaced or could simply be overhauled or rebuilt. The marina mechanic said that he did not know anyone local whom he would trust to do the work. In any event I think that it is important to know how to service the engine on the boat and not rely on marina mechanics. I would appreciate anyone who could walk me through what I need to know.

Anthony Forte

[Mo]

welcome aboard

Welcome aboard Anthony,

If you drove that engine home I doubt there is very much wrong with it. The big question for me is did the mechanic winterize it properly. I know it is actually colder where you are right now than here in Halifax and I would hate to see you have frost damage to that engine.

By the sounds of it, you might have a few minor technical difficulties, but you just jumped aboard with the right bunch of people here. No one knows these A4 like these guys. I'm not bad at it myself, but there are better than me on here.

Do you have a manual for the engine. The MOYER MARINE one is excellent. I really think we need to look at proper winterizing in case you get a freeze. If you think there is a danger of freezing you need to ensure that it was dealt with properly.

You said you wanted to learn to do the maintenance...you will be able to rebuild it here with these guys.

Best Regards
Mo

[sastanley]

Anthony...rest assured, we'll have that engine in tip top shape by spring. Although the A4 is a well known engine, boat yard mechanics hate working on them. (I think..that is my own personal theory)

Here we go. #1 - Buy yourself the MMI A4 manual..it is the A4 bible (send a link to your wife since Christmas is so close!!!)
#2 - Get a $5 oil can and squirt some Marvel Mystery Oil into the spark plug holes (they often loosen up sticky valves and sticky rings that get sticky on seldom used A4's) - turn the engine over with the starter (or hand crank if you have one with flywheel access)
#3 - start scanning this forum...my engine was "in need of replacement" according to the P.O. (the original owner) when I bought my boat. I have 92-105 PSI on all four cylinders currently with ~100 hours on the motor since I got the boat. Dave Neptune unfroze his motor 30+ years ago and although has low compression, motors to Catalina Island (West Coast) almost every weekend.
#4 - Get a $25 compression gauge with a standard 14mm (spark plug threads) screw in type end from a local auto store. Since you have said the boat is on shore now, we can use the starter to spin the motor to test compression.

If you did a 3 day delivery and the engine ran, we don't need to be wasting money on no mechanics.
OK...there is my $.02 for now! Christmas party time....

[Mo]

I'm with Shawn.

[forte]

Thank you all for your advice. I will follow Shawn check list. Is Marvel Mystery Oil something that I can buy locally in stores or do I need to order it from Moyer Marine?

Anthony

[Mo]

Anthony, do you know if they winterized the engine with antifreeze of some sort?? If they removed the thermostat while doing so?

[forte]

The following is their report of services (as best I can read it):

•Winterize 4 cyl. Gas Inboard Engine
•Treat fuel with stabilizer and flush with fuel.
•Fuel filter RACOR plastic bowl incorrect.
Application bowl striped to filter. Filter HSG [or H56?] improperly plumb and mounted hose leaking fuel. Bypass filter to perform winterize as req. Boat and engine fuel system in poor condition. Unsafe. Needs major repair.

Run engine on treated boat fuel. Engine very hard to start. Cranks over fast. Possibly bad compression. Several tries to start engine. Started run to temp. Check anti-freeze -25°. Pump out heat exchange and add new anti-freeze -30°.
•Oil change -- Pump out oil. Add new oil to level as req. Check level O.K.
Start engine -- will not start. Check spark O.K. Try starting fluid. No go. Engine modified with PVC valve. Remove valve and plug hose. Will not start. Crank engine and pump [???] 564/-50°. NTAP as req. to winterize and fog out. ORC down.

[Mo]

OK, don't sweat it just yet.
My phone number is 902 461 1228..in Nova Scotia. I'll be here for the next 1/2 hour if you want to call. It just might be something easy.
Bye for now.
Mo

[pad]

The following is their report of services (as best I can read it):

•Winterize 4 cyl. Gas Inboard Engine
•Treat fuel with stabilizer and flush with fuel.
•Fuel filter RACOR plastic bowl incorrect.
Application bowl striped to filter. Filter HSG [or H56?] improperly plumb and mounted hose leaking fuel. Bypass filter to perform winterize as req. Boat and engine fuel system in poor condition. Unsafe. Needs major repair.

Run engine on treated boat fuel. Engine very hard to start. Cranks over fast. Possibly bad compression. Several tries to start engine. Started run to temp. Check anti-freeze -25°. Pump out heat exchange and add new anti-freeze -30°.
•Oil change -- Pump out oil. Add new oil to level as req. Check level O.K.
Start engine -- will not start. Check spark O.K. Try starting fluid. No go. Engine modified with PVC valve. Remove valve and plug hose. Will not start. Crank engine and pump [???] 564/-50°. NTAP as req. to winterize and fog out. ORC down.

Sounds like you're ok for the winter. As stated above, get the MMI A4 manual - great reading before the spring. Also, when you do the compression test, make sure the thottle is wide open. From what you have said, I'd start with a complete tune-up kit including the electronic ignition kit, plus a carb rebuilding kit. BTW, when I looked into replacing my A4 with a diesel, the total cost was north of $15K - something to consider before throwing in the towel. I think you will find things are not as bad as you were lead to believe.

[sastanley]

anthony, no worries...we'll get you going....at least it sounds like antifreeze is in the block....

I've found MMO at my local Wal-Mart as cheap as $12 a gallon...but you can always source it from Moyer if needed.

one comment from your report...shy away from mechanics that want to use starting fluid (i.e. ether) to make the motor go...if it won't run on gas, there are usually other issues..(which may be bad gas, but we'll get there...)

In worst case, no fluid in the block (apparently my engine was winterized this way for many years) is better than water in the block that my freeze and expand.

The note about a plastic bowl in the Racor is correct...you should have a metal bowl for an inboard engine..available at Moyer, and on the Internet...metal bowl for inboards is key..

Thanks for the report...that's the detailed info we need to help....it's all 'downhill' from here.

[msauntry]

Triton! Great choice and welcome to the club.

Anthony,

First off, "mechanics" are for rich yachty types who have diesels and like to spend lots of money. You don't need one of these.

Second, I'm the proud former owner of Triton #628 and current owner of an Alberg 35, which is the same thing only a bit larger. You have a fantastic boat!

Third, most people on this forum (myself included) were exactly where you are at one point in our boating careers. Many of us had basket-case engines that a "mechanic" wouldn't look twice at. Many of us now have quiet running, reliable engines. You're education can now commence! We're happy to be your guide. Post any question you have and peruse the forum for information. You'll have your engine in tip top shape by spring.

By the "mechanic's" note of 'pump out heat exchange', shoud I assume you have fresh water cooling? Take a look at the thread about engine colors and you can see a few pics of Atomic 4's. The heat exchanger is the tubular thing with a radiator cap on it.

-Micah