A4 stops running

[cliffsails]

I just picked up and old (1975) Pearson 30 with an A4. I haven;t dealt with one since I owned a Pearson 10M 30 years ago. The engine was running for a while and then it would lose power and stutter and shut down. After a little while I could get it running again but roughly and straining under load until it died again. I just had the Carburetor rebuilt and reinstalled. Last night as I was bringing it from my mooring to the hard for a short haul, it ran perfectly for about 40 minutes then started sputtering and died. It would not start so I started to sail back to my mooring with the engine off. I tried to start it several times over the next 30 minutes as I tacked my way back to the harbor with no luck. The wind turned into my face making it nearly impossible to get back to my mooring without some help from the engine. After about another 1/2hr I managed to get it started again. but had to feather it in and out of gear to keep it running. Finally got back to the mooring where it ran for another 1/2 hr without problem. It may be important to note that the bottom and prop are severally fouled (hence bringing it in to be hauled) and although I've added a few gallons of new gas, half the gas is probable two years in the tank. Any suggestions? Perhaps the coil overheating? If so what kind and where can I get it?

[romantic comedy]

If the boat is all new to you, You better start from scratch. Plugs, points, condenser, cap, rotor, plugs, Wires?. Fuel is no good, I am surprised it ran at all. Old fuel can cause bizarre symptoms.

Fuel filters? Compression? Of course change the oil.

Then you will have a place to start.

[cliffsails]

Thanks for the quick response. The engine was commissioned by the yard where I bought it. Plugs, points, condenser, wires are all OK, filters were replaced. The engine, over the past month, has run fine and particularly well after the Carb Rebuild. However, usually I run it 10-15 minutes only to get of the mooring and out to the channel to put up sails and the same in reverse. The problem seems to occur only when it runs for an extended period like 45 minutes to 1 hour

[sastanley]

cliff, if you are worried about the gas, get it all out and start with fresh fuel. Two gallons of bad gas plus two gallons of good gas = 4 gallons of bad gas..

You may want to get a fuel sample (pull the fuel line and run the fuel pump to pump some into a container) to see how it looks after it sits for a while. Caleb will be a long in a bit to re-post his picture of the wonders of ethanol laced fuel that sits in your tank for a while.

However, I am thinking coil based on the symptoms you describe that match that sort of failure, although coil failures are far less common with points.

[CalebD]

Did someone call my name?

This is what old fuel in a tank can look like. More crud then fuel.

[cliffsails]

Thanks. I'll pump the gas out and replace it and see where that leads.

[edwardc]

Cliff,

I'm thinking you're having some sort of fuel delivery problem. If the flow rate is too low, the engine can run at idle with no load, but as soon as you start putting demands on it, the consumption exceeds the flow, causing the level of gas in the float bowl to go down until the engine starts sputtering and losing power.

Do you have an electronic or mechanical fuel pump? Mechanicals usually fail with a perforation of the diaphragm (which will dump fuel into the oil, raising its level), while the Facett electronic pumps have been known to exhibit the "stuck ball" failure, where the ball in the pump's internal check valve starts sticking to its seat. Both are easily correctable.

But we need more info. It's possible that your tank is so old and full of crud that the new filters are already getting overrun with it and are causing the restriction. Check your gas for debris and/or water. Drain the carb's float bowl into a clean, clear container to check the gas for crud.

[cliffsails]

Ed... thanks for the input. I actually had an atomic 4 mechanic look at the problem and he assured me that he checked out the fuel pump and it was working fine. After the problem with the boat last night he went back today and ran the engine for 30 minutes under load (in reverse on the mooring) and said he found not problem at all. Since the problem seems to occur intermittently and more often after extended periods of running the engine while travelling (more that 45 minutes) I am thinking that the gas is a mess and bouncing around and after a while causes some of the garbage to cause the problem or perhaps, he suggested, it might be the coil overheating. I plan to remove the old gas and replace it thereby taking that out of the equation. I've never done it but I can also replace the coil. The mechanic told me that the coil needs to be the kind with a "resistor" although I don't know where I can buy one and what kind I need. Any thoughts?

[joe_db]

When it dies, try some ether. If it fires up, you have no gas. If not, check for spark.

[edwardc]

... I've never done it but I can also replace the coil. The mechanic told me that the coil needs to be the kind with a "resistor" although I don't know where I can buy one and what kind I need. Any thoughts?

If you have electronic ignition, lots of previous discussion, research, and measurement has determined that you want to use a coil with 4 ohms of internal resistance, or add an external resistor ro bring the total (coil + resistor) up to 4 ohms.

Our host here sells a suitable coil.

[tenders]

Moyer sells EVERYTHING you'd need for an A4 with no doubts about compatibility. Here's the "ignition" page from the catalog, which includes the coil:

http://www.moyermarine.com/cgi-bin/shopper.cgi?search=action&category=IGLM&keywords=all&template=Templates/B000_storebuilder.html

[keithems]

with all due respect to mmi....

[and yes i spend over $500 / yr with them ...for the advice and to keep them there....]

coils are readily available at auto parts places like napa, advance, and carex....and u can buy and install a resistor if necessary...changing a coil is one of the easiest maintenance tasks you can perform...and it's always good to have a spare on board

you have to get rid of the bad fuel before you do anything else....any fuel -- even from last season -- is suspect and should be dumped .....it will probably burn in your car

as noted in other posts, i just r,r and r'ed my a4......and because i suspect my main tank ...seeing as it's been empty / unused for a year... i've been running so far on an outboard tank with fresh fuel...yes, i know it's not the safest, but until i have a chance to flush fresh fuel thru the ship's tank and see that it's clear, that's what i'll do. engine failures in shipping channels at nite -- or on the niagara river here 5-8 mi above the falls -- are a safety hazard also!

and then if it runs ok on an outboard tank, u know u have contamination in the inboard tank

btw -- using the outboard tank, i do occasionally have the motor flame out [quit ...in fmr jet pilot's lingo] but it's cuz of fuel pressure issues due to the small tank and hose...as long as i pump the pressure bulb every few minutes, no problem...

finally, join tow boat us -- it's less than $100 around here, and makes for great peace of mind -- not only for you but for those of us who may be near u.....

k

[ndutton]

Been there

With no disrespect to ANYONE, a quick show of hands please - -

How many have bought and installed parts from the local auto parts boutique only to be bit in the hiney later? Coils have been the popular topic lately but this extends to points, condensers, fuel pumps and whatever.

My hand is raised although I resolved my looming issue before it bit me. If you're going to buy locally where the first question asked by the part time high schooler behind the counter is "What car is this for?" and the last question is "Can I interest you in a pine scented air freshener?" you'd better be dead certain you know what you're looking for.

For example
Wrong: "I need a set of spark plugs for my Atomic 4."
Right: "Four Champion RJ8C spark plugs please."

Here's one guaranteed to make the clerk's eyes spin in opposite directions
Wrong: "I need a coil for my Atomic 4 modified with Hall effect electronic ignition." (Good luck)
Right: "Pertronix 40511 coil please and while you're at it, an Echlin ICR5500 ballast resistor."

[romantic comedy]

I like to hook up a test fuel tank. For my boat, I used a 1 gallon jug, and it ran great. ( i was trouble shooting an intermittent fawcet fuel pump)

When it stops go thru the usual:

getting fuel?
spark?

Try some starting fluid to check for gas.

[Jimmy]

My hand is raised
Been there-done that
Sailing season is too short up here to trade a weekend in a effort to save 20 bucks!

Cheers,
Jimmy