VOODOO MAGIC?

[joe_db]

So, pretty much how I figured the group would see this.
As I'm sure I said earlier, this is waaaay not for us.
I should point out that the main reason I posted it was that I thought some of the "tinkerers" among us would find it interesting.

There is one other *site I frequent regularly and John, the main host, spent a very detailed article on it.
He basically shot it down for many of the same reasons we've discussed.
In fact some of his bullet points were almost line for line with Neil's.

*Attainable Adventure Cruising

It is interesting for sure, but also puzzling. I am not sure what they think they have accomplished
Using a main engine as a genset too is an ancient idea. Freighters have tailshaft generators to avoid using their gensets underway. This is now being promoted as "green energy" because you don't have the exhaust of 2 different engines.

https://www.marineinsight.com/environment/the-green-source-of-power-shaft-generator/

A friend of mine just got rid of the genset on his fishing boat and got one of these setups. They are available in sizes that work on 40+ foot powerboats.
Using higher than 12 volt batteries is likewise very old. Way back in the day 120 volts DC and 32 volts DC were common voltages for boats. 24 volts DC is the standard DC system on any commercial ship now and many larger boats. As I said, 48 volts may one day be common on boats, but it isn't yet.
Permanent Magnet alternators are already on boats in wind generators. You gain some by not needing field current, but you need different regulators that are a lot more complex.
Also note marine gensets are pretty simple, very reliable, and the fuel in to electricity out formula never changes
Three Laws of Thermodynamics:
1. You can't win
2. You can't break even
3. You have to play

[Dave Neptune]

WOW, I don't see any advantage to it other than financial bragging rights! I also don't see many applications "size of vessel wise" to which it would be an advantage.

For those of us in 30~40 ft sailbots going electric to me seems backwards in most approaches. Were I repowering with an eye to efficiency of the "unit" and space I would sort of turn things around. An electric drive system for a sailboat does not need to be very large as compared to a power boat.

My approach would be to remove the existing diesel and trans and sell them. Say it was a 35 foot boat why not install a 20kw genset and an electric drive to suit. The genset would happily run any "comforts" all night long. After all it is a sailboat as per "Russ". The genset nd batteries could easily get close to hull speed when you were docking or motoring.

A friend of mine has been having a lot of electrical power problems with his 45'
liveaboard.. He has 320 watts of solar and a genset. Because the genset is horribly noisy hidden under the galley they don't like to run it. I began to get curious as to why he was having dead batteries because of his "refrigeration" as he put it. So I grabbed a meter and went to give him a hand. Well to my surprise and his "shock" it had nothing to do with the refrigeration. While at anchor he uses the 10 gallon electric water heater, a coffee maker, toaster, microwave and AC when hot! He had absolutely no idea of how much power he was using. When I got things added up there wasn't enough room on his boat for adequate solar power. He was going to add another 300 watts of solar power which he bought. He said he had been listening to me with the same refrigeration system having my solar system at float before noon on cloudy days and thought he could do the same. I think he is now going to invest in better insulation for his genset.

To many people swallow the hype and do not research what their "needs" actually are.

Dave Neptune

[lat 64]

I think quite a few motor yachts will be interested in this system though. Not a big percentage-wise cost for a small Nordic Tug($500,000+)

I also had another thought on the economics of a boat with all-electric appliances, battery storage, and diesel propulsion with the "magic-stuff" alternator—Safety. No CO exposure from a generator running at anchor or at night and no propane fire risk. I imagine on emergency room visit and hospital stay for burn injury can well exceed the cost of this system*. Just a thought.

*As Dave says, one does have to be aware of the energy budget. No teenagers showering.

[joe_db]

I think quite a few motor yachts will be interested in this system though. Not a big percentage-wise cost for a small Nordic Tug($500,000+)

I also had another thought on the economics of a boat with all-electric appliances, battery storage, and diesel propulsion with the "magic-stuff" alternator—Safety. No CO exposure from a generator running at anchor or at night and no propane fire risk. I imagine on emergency room visit and hospital stay for burn injury can well exceed the cost of this system*. Just a thought.

*As Dave says, one does have to be aware of the energy budget. No teenagers showering.

Still don't get it - there are cheaper ways to do the exact same thing that are well proven.

[joe_db]

WOW, I don't see any advantage to it other than financial bragging rights! I also don't see many applications "size of vessel wise" to which it would be an advantage.

For those of us in 30~40 ft sailbots going electric to me seems backwards in most approaches. Were I repowering with an eye to efficiency of the "unit" and space I would sort of turn things around. An electric drive system for a sailboat does not need to be very large as compared to a power boat.

My approach would be to remove the existing diesel and trans and sell them. Say it was a 35 foot boat why not install a 20kw genset and an electric drive to suit. The genset would happily run any "comforts" all night long. After all it is a sailboat as per "Russ". The genset nd batteries could easily get close to hull speed when you were docking or motoring.

A friend of mine has been having a lot of electrical power problems with his 45'
liveaboard.. He has 320 watts of solar and a genset. Because the genset is horribly noisy hidden under the galley they don't like to run it. I began to get curious as to why he was having dead batteries because of his "refrigeration" as he put it. So I grabbed a meter and went to give him a hand. Well to my surprise and his "shock" it had nothing to do with the refrigeration. While at anchor he uses the 10 gallon electric water heater, a coffee maker, toaster, microwave and AC when hot! He had absolutely no idea of how much power he was using. When I got things added up there wasn't enough room on his boat for adequate solar power. He was going to add another 300 watts of solar power which he bought. He said he had been listening to me with the same refrigeration system having my solar system at float before noon on cloudy days and thought he could do the same. I think he is now going to invest in better insulation for his genset.

To many people swallow the hype and do not research what their "needs" actually are.

Dave Neptune

I was going to say the same thing - get a well proven reliable diesel genset and an electric motor. This is how cruise ships operate, the diesel gensets run all the hotel loads and the propulsion motors. Also plenty of diesel-electric tugs around. Still some cash involved though.

[Dave Neptune]

Joe, John "Q" Public is mostly interested in systems with well written boasting. I looked to "tiffany's (west marine)" for a solar system and was shocked with the costs after having researched "building" my own with available quality parts. I built a 320 watt set-up for less than $600 including installation and monitoring gages.

Another point regarding voltages. In DC once your at 48v it is becoming a "current" to be careful with. Some articles I've read state that voltage concerns are why the "electric superchargers" are having a hard time being developed and marketed. I think they will wind up with a capacitor assist to spin up turbochargers and/or wheel motor boost's for rapid performance in the near future.

Dave Neptune

[joe_db]

I have no idea why, but West Marine is the worst place on the planet to buy solar. Their gear is half as good and twice the price of any random eBay find.

Back to the original idea: If you are going to imitate something found on commercial vessels, it pays to find out how they do it AND remember they pay an engineer to babysit the system