Palmer P60

[AFisch]

Hey All...so I'm pretty stoked, so far with the perfromance of the engine after all of your help guiding me on solving my problems.

Everyting seems to be getting dialed in nicely...and I am now convinced that the dripping noise is just water dripping back to lowest part. It's probably always done that, I just didn't notice since my head wasn't in the engine so much before problems.

Now that I am getting more educated, and have become more confident, I will definitly be staying on top of her a lot more.

With all that said...I am starting to learn to read spark plugs and getting an idea of whats happening in the engine. My spark plugs look good interms of how they are wearing down...but they are a little white/grey colored...is this an indication of a need to provide more fuel to the mixture?

Adam

[ndutton]

Adam, part of dialing in an engine is knowing when to stop tweaking. Good to hear the engine is doing well.

https://www.google.com/search?q=reading+spark+plugs&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS799US799&oq=reading+spark+plugs&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l7.5754j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#kpvalbx=_pzBZXtyzBLrL0PEPssa9kA480

[AFisch]

Adam, part of dialing in an engine is knowing when to stop tweaking. Good to hear the engine is doing well.

https://www.google.com/search?q=read...L0PEPssa9kA480

I know I know...I should just stop where I am at...but trying to also prevent future issues...I rebuilt the carb for the first time and think I had the main jet set right...I am going to replace the plugs altogether so I have a clean slate to work with and monitor their wear. I will not touch the carb settings yet.

Thanks for the link...I have watched that video before, but thought I would double check with you guys since I have come to trust the advice given here. On that note...your advice of not tweaking any further (apart from new spark plugs) I will heed.

[ndutton]

Laguna Niguel? We're almost neighbors. Have you met David Grosse of Boat City Yacht Services in Santa Ana? He's a Palmer guy.

[AFisch]

Laguna Niguel? We're almost neighbors. Have you met David Grosse of Boat City Yacht Services in Santa Ana? He's a Palmer guy.

I've heard of him...and even reached out when I started coming to dead ends on working out my issue...but you all saved the day and kept encouraging me to stick with it since I was so close. Now she's back up and running.

If you are ever heading south, my boat is in Dana Point...reach out if you're in the area (sailing or not).

[AFisch]

OK everyone...so, boats been running great all up until this pas Saturday...not much wind, so we went for a motor up to Laguna Beach...longest on motor since my initial problem last summer...it was a little choppy, confused seas and lots of power boat wakes, so we were getting tossed around a bit...

And then it happened again, engine stalled due to fuel supply issue. Got it to restart and then it ran for about 20 min or so, then stalled again and would not restart. Clearly fuel supply issue but since I still haven't installed a fuel pressure gauge... it could be the carb again, or a blockage somewhere in the fuel system.

Next day went down and she fired right back up and ran for hours no problem (in the slip, both in gear and in neutral). Removed fuel filter (plastic opaque, i know not ideal) and blew threw it and seemed like passage was clear.

- side note...I shut off the fuel valve to see how long the engine would run until dry...it was about 3 minutes and change to use up the fuel in the bowl of the carb as well as through all the lines -

I think I may have a dirty fuel tank, and when getting all tossed around while out on open water, the sediment got all stirred up and clogged us.

So, my plan now is to re-do my whole fuel system arrangement. I will place the Fuel/Water separator right after Fuel tank...then run that to the fuel pump, then get a proper polishing filter from Moyer to place between fuel pump and carb. I will also remove carb again to see if the float is bent again, but I don't think it is. I also want to try to clean out the tank as best I can without removing it yet...I plan to use my old (spare fuel pump, and rig up a filter system to circulate back to the tank and run this for a while, changing filters as needed with the hop of getting some of the sediment/debris out of the tank. I know this won't be a permanent fix, but easy enough to rig and run.

Couple questions regarding the carb...

1. is it possible for a float to get stuck in the closed position not allowing fuel to fill the bowl? All the research I have done is mostly floats sticking in the open position, flooding too much fuel.

2. What would have or could have cause the float to get bent in the first place (that is what had happened the first time I had my fuel supply issue).

3. I will have to re-do the whole fuel line set up, reposition the fuel pump as well...does it have to remain mounted in the vertical position (electric facet fuel pump).

4. Placement of the pressure gauge...best to be right before the carb after all filters, pumps, etc?

[Dave Neptune]

Adam;
#1 Very unlikely a float gets stuck closed especially with the vibration of running.

#2 The float was bent before or during assembly. Perhaps the carb was dropped, just be careful.

#3 The pump should be mounted vertical.

#4 Yes the gage should be just before the carb. I suggest mounting a 1/8" ball valve on the gage. Good place to shut the fuel off!!

AND, since the engine was also well warmed up as well as the coil. Since it restarted after a possible 20 minute cooling time it could well be suspect. Did you check for spark?

The first thing to check after the engine just dies and your not out of fuel is the SPARK. If the engine died abruptly this is a likely scenario. If it sputtered, stumbled and died it could maybe be the fuel delivery.

Do you have a remote start switch mounted, may just add that to your shopping list.

Dave Neptune

[AFisch]

Adam;
#1 Very unlikely a float gets stuck closed especially with the vibration of running.

OK...so I will rule that out

#2 The float was bent before or during assembly. Perhaps the carb was dropped, just be careful.

Iinteresting as I have had the boat for 4 years before I had my initial problem, took off the carb and it was bent...I did not drop it and was very careful with it.


#3 The pump should be mounted vertical.

Thank you, I assumed so but asked anyways to free up option of re-mounting when I reconfigure everything.

#4 Yes the gage should be just before the carb. I suggest mounting a 1/8" ball valve on the gage. Good place to shut the fuel off!!

Perfect...will do as suggested.

AND, since the engine was also well warmed up as well as the coil. Since it restarted after a possible 20 minute cooling time it could well be suspect. Did you check for spark?

I did not check for spark...but will try to remember to do so when it does. I have checked the spark...maybe a month or so ago and it was ok. But just checked it from the coil...I will replace the spark plugs though which i have never done and when pulling one out it looked a little (very little) grey. Also...when it died, it was not 20 min before being able to fire it back up again...maybe 10 though....so now you are having me think that it could have been spark related, possibly needing to replace the spark plugs. (The coil has been replaced already). Spark plugs are cheap and I will still reconfigure the fuel system.

The first thing to check after the engine just dies and your not out of fuel is the SPARK. If the engine died abruptly this is a likely scenario. If it sputtered, stumbled and died it could maybe be the fuel delivery.

It sort of died abruptly.. and it only very slightly stumbled, so again leading me back to your suggestion of Spark...(which I will def remember to keep in mind for future). With that said, after we did get it fired up again (after about 10 min) and it ran for another 25 min or so, I believe it stumbled a bit when it died that time.

Again, coil is only a month or 2 old...but spark plugs are old and I will replace. And with that said...it does take a little more time to fire her up the first time than she used to and I have recently replaced both batteries too. So again now leading me back to spark (thank you for suggestion).

Do you have a remote start switch mounted, may just add that to your shopping list.

I do not, but I will add to list..I have a 9 year old son however that can and has turned the key for me the last time I checked spark.

Dave Neptune

Thanks so much Dave...Now even though I will re-do my fuel line set up...you have me thinking it could be my spark plugs.

[Administrator]

Where did you purchase the coil? Did you test its resistance?

Bill

[AFisch]

Where did you purchase the coil? Did you test its resistance?

Bill

I got it from a local Marine Supply Store and it was the only one they had...I have not checked for resistance...but I believe I just watched Don do the test on the Moyer Youtube...

But any insight on how to do it properly here as well would be helpful.

[Ando]

Thanks Don...I already bought the rebuild kit from your website for the early model carbs...should be arriving on the 18th and I will get to cleaning this one and putting it back together. If I have problems, I will certainly look to buying a new one.

Back in post #9, you indicated that you purchased an "early model" rebuild kit. The picture of your carb, however, shows that it is a late model carb (because it has five screws rather than four). I made the same mistake when I rebuilt my late model carb for the first time (i.e., I purchased an early model carb rebuild kit from MMI). Not only are the jets totally different (as per Ken of MMI) but, just as important, is the fact that the gasket that goes between the two halves of the carb that comes with the early model rebuild kit is totally different than the gasket that comes with the late model rebuild kit. And the difference is that the early model gasket doesnt cover the fifth screw, which can lead to an air leak which, in turn, can cause stalling.

Thus, take a look at your receipt and see exactly which rebuild kit you ordered. If it says "early model", you know that it is the wrong kit. Then look at the gasket between the two halves and you can bet that it doesnt cover the fifth screw. And you know that groovy shiny adjustment knob that came with the early model rebuild kit, which the directions say to install at the aft bottom of the carb...it doesn't belong on your late model carb. Rather, your carb just has a bolt-type plug in that goes there with a very specific size O-ring. The jet that is within that plug, as well as all the other jets, are all different too in the late model.

Dont fret as I did about cross threading by placing early model jets etc. in a late model carb, the threads are the same in both rebuild kits.

Hope that helps. Keep plugging away. I just got my late model A4 running again today after a six month adventure which included an engine swap (due to a thrashed #2 journal caused by me not putting oil in the early model engine, which is now in my garage waiting to be rebuilt) and rebuilding the late model A4 on my boat now with almost all new parts and a whole lot of fails. And it was all thanks to the patience and mentoring within this community and especially ndutton. FYI, six months ago, all I knew about engines was how to change a spark plug and put oil and gas (but I even failed at putting oil as you can see). I didn't even know what a carb was, let alone having the confidence to take it out and rebuild it. I have yet to learn as I am having a fuel delivery issue, but I digress. Good luck and please keep us posted.

[ndutton]

All good info Ando except for one thing. The picture in post #9 of this thread is of an early model carburetor. Your experiences and advice are spot on otherwise though.

[AFisch]

Back in post #9, you indicated that you purchased an "early model" rebuild kit. The picture of your carb, however, shows that it is a late model carb (because it has five screws rather than four). I made the same mistake when I rebuilt my late model carb for the first time (i.e., I purchased an early model carb rebuild kit from MMI). Not only are the jets totally different (as per Ken of MMI) but, just as important, is the fact that the gasket that goes between the two halves of the carb that comes with the early model rebuild kit is totally different than the gasket that comes with the late model rebuild kit. And the difference is that the early model gasket doesnt cover the fifth screw, which can lead to an air leak which, in turn, can cause stalling.

Thus, take a look at your receipt and see exactly which rebuild kit you ordered. If it says "early model", you know that it is the wrong kit. Then look at the gasket between the two halves and you can bet that it doesnt cover the fifth screw. And you know that groovy shiny adjustment knob that came with the early model rebuild kit, which the directions say to install at the aft bottom of the carb...it doesn't belong on your late model carb. Rather, your carb just has a bolt-type plug in that goes there with a very specific size O-ring. The jet that is within that plug, as well as all the other jets, are all different too in the late model.

Dont fret as I did about cross threading by placing early model jets etc. in a late model carb, the threads are the same in both rebuild kits.

Hope that helps. Keep plugging away. I just got my late model A4 running again today after a six month adventure which included an engine swap (due to a thrashed #2 journal caused by me not putting oil in the early model engine, which is now in my garage waiting to be rebuilt) and rebuilding the late model A4 on my boat now with almost all new parts and a whole lot of fails. And it was all thanks to the patience and mentoring within this community and especially ndutton. FYI, six months ago, all I knew about engines was how to change a spark plug and put oil and gas (but I even failed at putting oil as you can see). I didn't even know what a carb was, let alone having the confidence to take it out and rebuild it. I have yet to learn as I am having a fuel delivery issue, but I digress. Good luck and please keep us posted.

Hey Ando...thanks for the input...but I definietly got the right kit...you can see my carb on post# 7 in the thread...it is the early 4 bolt carb, so we are all good on the gaskets, etc. But, your thoughts on air leak is something else I should consider and will find a way to check.

[Ando]

All good info Ando except for one thing. The picture in post #9 of this thread is of an early model carburetor. Your experiences and advice are spot on otherwise though.

Thank you, Neil. I looked at the pic again and realized: 1. having fifth screw in and of itself doesn't mean it is a late model carb; and 2. I see now how the configuration of the gasket area is in Afisch's early model. Still learning

[Ando]

Hey Ando...thanks for the input...but I definietly got the right kit...you can see my carb on post# 7 in the thread...it is the early 4 bolt carb, so we are all good on the gaskets, etc. But, your thoughts on air leak is something else I should consider and will find a way to check.

Yes you did, my mistake. As for the air leak: the carb I originally had in it was causing an air leak. We found that out when we replaced it with one ndutton knew worked well and it fired up and ran without issue (once tuned a bit). Thankfully, I had an extra and rebuilt it and replaced ndutton's with ittoday and fired her up, again with no issues (and a bit of tuning). My apologies for the red herring