Originally posted by edwardc
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We live in Freeport Maine...
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Originally posted by joe_db View PostHow much WOULD you pay for a reliable engine?
Give us a number and we can work up a solution (or not).
How much did you pay for the entire boat in the first place?
The engine in it was the second engine it had. However, I found out that the engine was rust clogged and ended up getting another one put in last year.. Got it from a yard on Long Island - all I could find that was in reasonable shape at the time. A yard in Freeport swapped the engine out (has a guy that "really knows" the A4). I got about 45 minutes run time out of the engine before it totally refused to start one Friday. The mechanic was on a 5 week walkabout at that point and when he got back he refused to assist (probably because the bill had been paid?).
That was at the end of last season. I made bunches of calls and found that no one - no marina - would even look at the engine. Finally found a local guy who worked on it over the winter and had it running on the hard. Heard it - saw it. Then we launched it and the engine just would. not. start. So I made more calls up/down the coast this spring, looking for help. Same answer "An A4? No way, no how, no sir."
I do have to credit my guy - he has invested a lot of his own time, unpaid, trying to get the thing working reliably.
So I have a 30' Cat Mk1, with a dead A4, (an engine I have learned not to trust). Between last year's replacement, yard fees, this year's mechanic's fees, parts, (not counting the cost of my time of course) bet I've spent most of 10K. The good news? The sails have seen very little wear this season! So there's that.
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Originally posted by ndutton View PostPlease ask your current mechanic to join the forum and contact us. I’ll bet we can help him.
This!!!
BTW - there is no way anyone rusted 2 A4s to death since the 1980s in fresh water. Someone pulled a fast one on you. Too late now, but "rust clogged"may have been an easy fix. RWC A4s can get very gooped up with algae, sand, minerals, and mud. An acid clean usually fixes it.
EDIT - who told you it was rust-clogged and who suggested the engine from Long Island?Last edited by joe_db; 09-13-2018, 04:19 PM.Joe Della Barba
Coquina
C&C 35 MK I
Maryland USA
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I'm watching this whole thing and it's like a pissing contest. I had never heard of an A4 a year and a half ago and mine arrived fully disassembled and in cardboard boxes. By listening to the advice of the people on this board, I rebuilt parts, reassembled things, and wound up with both a solidly running engine and the knowledge that I can fix anything that goes wrong with it.
I've heard the same garbage about A4s being unreliable boat anchors and I too have had a few problems, but my friends with diesels that don't run them every few days, have far greater problems that I do. The people badmouthing them are usually diesel mechanics who are clueless about engines that the computer won't diagnose for them. These engines are basic enough for anybody to learn, but if you don't want to, then you're in a bind regardless the power source you go with.Steve Demore
S/V Doin' It Right
Pasadena, MD
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Originally posted by joe_db View PostHow much WOULD you pay for a reliable engine?
Give us a number and we can work up a solution (or not).
How much did you pay for the entire boat in the first place?
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Originally posted by ndutton View PostThe vast majority come here looking for help and/or advice and we are happy to do the best we can. Rarely if ever does someone come here to tell us our assistance is unwanted and to malign and complain about an engine that has proven itself over several decades. I implore you to either sell or donate this boat for your sake and the boat's.
Entirely possible but we really don't have the necessary evidence to conclude this nor should we expect to get the evidence.
Admin with his finger on the button, dump it if I crossed a line.
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Originally posted by joe_db View Post^^^^^^^^
This!!!
BTW - there is no way anyone rusted 2 A4s to death since the 1980s in fresh water. Someone pulled a fast one on you. Too late now, but "rust clogged"may have been an easy fix. RWC A4s can get very gooped up with algae, sand, minerals, and mud. An acid clean usually fixes it.
EDIT - who told you it was rust-clogged and who suggested the engine from Long Island?Last edited by GEM555; 09-13-2018, 09:52 PM.
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"The mechanic(s) removed the head multiple times? That's ridiculous. If it truly needed to be removed a second time it means they didn't do the job right the first time."
See it from my point of view. I have just exactly one resource for this engine in the entire state. Just one. And if I have a cylinder that isn't firing and he thinks the head has to come off, what's my alternative? I can say "no" but I don't have a better idea.
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Originally posted by GEM555 View Post"The mechanic(s) removed the head multiple times? That's ridiculous. If it truly needed to be removed a second time it means they didn't do the job right the first time."
See it from my point of view. I have just exactly one resource for this engine in the entire state. Just one. And if I have a cylinder that isn't firing and he thinks the head has to come off, what's my alternative? I can say "no" but I don't have a better idea.Last edited by ndutton; 09-13-2018, 11:01 PM.Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
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Originally posted by ndutton View PostYour point of view has been the Atomic 4 cannot be made to run reliably under any circumstances. For the second time, please ask your current mechanic to join the forum and contact us.
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Originally posted by GEM555 View Post"My point of view" - based on direct, first hand experience
But I'll speak to him
Have any of your mechanics mentioned winterizing? That task is a mere weeks away for you, engine running or not. If it's not done properly and in time the engine will ruined . . . . . and that's not the engine's fault either.Last edited by ndutton; 09-14-2018, 09:18 AM.Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
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I had an MG that was quite reliable and I had a Toyota Camry that couldn't drive around the block without a part falling off and went through 3 transmissions in 100,000 miles.
Anecdotes are not data and no one would seriously suggest buying an MG because Toyotas break all the time.
So...My original A4 took us to New England twice and Bermuda 3 times with no issues at all. Obviously they can be made to work.
Please please have your mechanic get on here.Joe Della Barba
Coquina
C&C 35 MK I
Maryland USA
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Originally posted by ndutton View PostYou don't have to accept it but please realize the forum members have a completely different point of view based on - you guessed it - direct, first hand experience. It might be worthwhile to consider what makes our experiences different than yours. That is, what factors are different? We have the same engine as you, same ignition, same valves, same boat, same age, same marine environment, same rust. Consider too that there are thousands of us who do not share your experience, point of view or conclusions.
Thank you.
Have any of your mechanics mentioned winterizing? That task is a mere weeks away for you, engine running or not. If it's not done properly and in time the engine will ruined . . . . . and that's not the engine's fault either.
I apologize for beating up on your engine. We did not realize that you have to be a skilled mechanic to own one, that's all.
Please understand: I am in a business where people are forever sticking their hands in when they don't really know what they are doing. 98% of the time they do nothing more than make the knot tighter and harder for me and my team to finally untie. This lesson (re-learned every business day) leads me to keep my hands OFF the engine because I don't have a friggin clue. I have one diagnostic skill: call the mechanic. If I truly thought I couldn't really "break things worse" maybe I'd take a serious lash at it.
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Originally posted by GEM555 View PostWe did not realize that you have to be a skilled mechanic to own one, that's all.
As for If I truly thought I couldn't really "break things worse" maybe I'd take a serious lash at it, considering what you have reported to us, I don't see the risk. Using your own term, how much damage can you inflict on a paperweight? I think you're selling yourself short but frankly I've thought that all along. Said another way, I think we have more faith in you than you do. However, for there to be any hope of success we need to speak with someone who knows this is fixable and your comments thus far don't support that. It's the reason we are looking forward to working with your mechanic.Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
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