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  #1   IP: 66.245.66.252
Old 06-26-2011, 11:15 AM
HOTFLASH HOTFLASH is offline
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Question External regulator on Motorola 35 amp alternator?

I have two regulator questions I am putting to the Atomic 4 brain trust. I looked and did not find thread that directly addresses them, but if I missed it please point me in the right direction: The soon acquisition of new agm batteries has prompted this question.

1. I have the 35 amp 37 yo Motorola alternator. Nothing new added. Would it be internally or externally regulated? It has an approx 3 x 2" metal box like thing attached to it face, like I have seen on various pic posted here, which I once thought was a regulator, but some threads here have suggested otherwise. I take it that it is internally regulated. If not where is it?

2. If it is internally regulated, how can I make it externally regulated--am thinking about the balmar max model? How to disconnect the internal regulating function, or do I? Does the external regulator have to be attached to the alternator?

Anything else I am not thinking about?

Am thanking you now--Mary
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Old 06-26-2011, 12:04 PM
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The stock Motorola 35A alternator is externally regulated although its appearance is deceptive. The regulator rides on the back of the alternator and is often painted the same color. It's not (electrically) required to ride there but if you relocate it be sure it's well grounded.

Here's a drawing showing the connections

Critical Update!!
About relocating the regulator off the alternator, DON'T DO IT!! The reason is the regulator body is an integral part of the ignition protection package required by the USCG. If you decide to use a remote regulator, the original must remain in place even if not connected. This pertains to the standard Motorola 35 amp alternator originally supplied on the Atomic 4.

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  #3   IP: 67.242.179.241
Old 06-26-2011, 03:01 PM
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External regulator

Neil,

Thanks for posting the picture.. It will help me in rewiring my older prestolite alt.; it is also externally regulated. One question I have is, coming out of the distributor you only show one lead (negative) out connecting to the coil. I have a converted solid state distributor with two leads; one red and one black. Does the red lead go to the pos side of the coil???

Boatminion68
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Old 06-26-2011, 07:28 PM
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Boatminion,

Based on your description I'm assuming your electronic ignition is a Pertronix. I've attached the Pertronix wiring instructions (figure 2 applies) and a wiring diagram of my boat showing the Pertronix electronic ignition, electric fuel pump with oil pressure safety switch, oil and water alarm system, single wire alternator, on board fuel polishing system wiring and electric FWC pump.

I hope you find this helpful.
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File Type: pdf Pertronix Wiring Diagram.pdf (73.1 KB, 929 views)
File Type: pdf E-3 Engine wiring.pdf (26.5 KB, 768 views)
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Old 06-27-2011, 12:36 AM
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I tried to remove regulator, but....

Well, I tried to remove the "Transpo" (the label) regulator today, and it was sealed with a gummy rubber gasket. If I were to remove it, there would need to be something to cover the area--and some sealed way to access the ground and field connections under the regulator. Any ideas?

I guess the sealed is part of the ignition protection, so without a replacement, I decided not to remove it.

Interestingly, my regulator is not painted with the Atomic 4 Bronze paint, but is a grey unpainted metal, though the 4 screws that attach it had been painted with the a4 paint--so I would guess it was not original--but it is the same shape often seen on this site--with a rounded part and rectangular part. Its shape matches the shape of the cavity in the alternator that it covers.

It has black and yellow wires that come out the top. The yellow one goes to the coil, and the black one to an alternator terminal just above its exit from the regulator. I presume the black one is a ground. There is also a red wire coming out of the bottom attaching to a terminal at the bottom of the alternator. What would that be?

At the moment, I do not see how I cannot see how I can update my regulator.

Has anyone done this?
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Old 06-27-2011, 05:02 AM
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Years ago I removed that bolted-on regulator and a friend made up a thick piece of wood of the same shape. I drilled some holes to mount it and one hole that lets a bolt pass thorugh so you can make the connection to the lug that is on the inside. I double nutted the bolt on the outside so I can attach a wire that runs to the external regulator I installed.

-Jonathan
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Old 06-27-2011, 07:23 AM
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Neil,

Thank you very much the wiring diagrams. One question I have is on the firing order; is it different than the standard firing order with the original distributor?

Boatminion68
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Old 06-27-2011, 08:10 AM
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Firing order is 1-2-4-3, always. Firing order is determined by crank spacing - can't change that by changing from points to electronic or anything like that. It's the fundamental architecture of the engine.
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Old 06-27-2011, 08:48 AM
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Mary, The original regulator was broken on my boat when I got it. The P.O. had numerous aftermarket ideas to regulate the charging circuit..including a switch with a resistor & an external regulator screwed into a bulkhead. I think the external regulator broke also, & the switch was the working solution. It certainly can be done, but there are sealing issues as you've noticed. On my boat, the original (non-functioning) regulator was left in place on the alternator while the other "solutions" were in place.

I have a new external regulator on my boat, which has an option to adjust the output voltage. I have mine set at 14.2v under normal operating conditions.

I would think you could use this unit to charge AGMs as well, since you can set the voltage to any desired level.

The unit I have is a Transpo M5-197A. Have you looked to see if you can adjust the voltage (back side under the gasket) to something appropriate for AGMs?

Here is a before pic & after pic of mine. Notice the white wire coming out of the side of the OEM regulator. I am going to guess that is the field for the alt. that went off to the regulating 'switch' or the external regulator bolted elsewhere. You can see the other two wires (pos. & neg. I presume) were cut & taped. Not a very sophisticated fix, but I guess the regulator was left in place for the same reasons you cite. Anyway, not sure if these pics help any.

The original supplier (ASE Supply) no longer carries it, but I found a few other places that come up with a search that may have it.
http://66.46.21.101/RCPOnline/Search...x?PART=M5-197A
http://www.textronic.us/ShowItem/111746%20Vr%20Mot.aspx
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Last edited by sastanley; 06-27-2011 at 09:12 AM. Reason: before & after pics & links
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Old 06-27-2011, 10:23 AM
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So helpful, Thanks! But more Q's

The replies from Jonathan, Neil and Sastanley have been tremendously helpful! Thank you! Still have a couple questions about the regulator to be answered before moving ahead. As you can see, this is all new to me, so I appreciate your patience.

What is the red wire coming out the lower side of the regulator that connects to the alternator just below its exit from the regulator? Is that power to the regulator? Or out?

What is the black wire coming out the top of the regulator that connects to a terminal just above its exit from the regulator at the top left of the alternator? The ground?

I take it that what looked to be a green wire entirely situated under the regulator is the "field" wire.

Is it a "P-type" regulator?

It looks like the pic in sastanley's first link is a replacement regulator with a gasket. Would a cork gasket work as well to not compromise the ignition protection? (I can make that). Is there another safe solution? The rubber gasket that is there was gummy and tearing, so I did not lift the regulator entirely off the alternator, and won't until I have a plan for another gasket.

Is the transpo regulator output staged? Sounds like I can adjust it.

I think this is going to be a project for the winter and I will stay with what I have regulator-wise for now so that I may use my boat. I will keep you posted.

Mary
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Old 06-27-2011, 02:37 PM
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Mary,

The Transpo that I have is not a multi-stage or smart regulator. To answer your question, I think it is a b-type. I am using lead-acid batteries, and do not feel a high $$ regulator is necessary for my application.

There are lots of people here with more knowledge on the subject than myself. We had lots of discussion a couple of years ago, which led me to purchase the regulator I have now. I might try a few searches here on the Moyer forum for Atomic 4 specific applications.

I might also recommend sheet rubber for a gasket..that is apparently the only difference in the starter to make it 'ignition protected'. Again, maybe someone else can chime in if that is acceptable.

edit - Mary, here is one --> http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2617 - it looks like if you went with a fancy external regulator, examining rigspelt's photo, you could probably get the field wire to exit out of the same rubber hole as the yellow wire with a little bit of work & then send it off to the new regulator..it seems by then the old regulator would simply be a cap on the alternator.
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Last edited by sastanley; 06-27-2011 at 03:05 PM.
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