Return to the home page...

Go Back   Moyer Marine Atomic 4 Community - Home of the Afourians > Discussion Topics > Electrical

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   IP: 75.67.203.22
Old 03-29-2009, 12:09 PM
riphonda riphonda is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 18
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Wire from alternator to battery?

Hello, I have been lurking here quite a while and have bought a handful of new parts for my A4 from Don this winter: new exhaust flange, elec ignition, new zenith carburetor, etc... I am now in the process of rewiring and notice that on the "sticky" wiring schematic there is no wire showing from the alternator to the battery except the orange wire coming from the alternator through the ignition switch. Shouldn't there be an additional wire of greater size going directly to the battery/ battery switch to accommodate charging? The current configuration from the previous owner has the boat wired exactly to the schematic on this site and to me it appears the charging wire is missing so the only current has to go through the ign switch before it hits the batts for charging... Confused... Thanks in advance. Brendan.
Reply With Quote
  #2   IP: 71.252.15.2
Old 03-29-2009, 10:17 PM
sastanley's Avatar
sastanley sastanley is online now
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Solomons, MD
Posts: 7,016
Thanks: 1,134
Thanked 600 Times in 442 Posts
Brendan,

My orange wire goes from the alternator to the ammeter and then back to a battery isolator/battery positive (not in the stock wiring diagram).

There is extensive discussion here about charging circuits, etc.. I would recommend a quick search and browse of rigspelt & Steve M.'s discussions about wiring..it will make your head spin, but may answer your question.
__________________
-Shawn
"Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109
"Twice Around" - '77 C-30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold - SOLD! (no longer a two boat owner!!)
http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic3231_6.gif
Reply With Quote
  #3   IP: 142.68.117.65
Old 03-30-2009, 05:05 AM
rigspelt's Avatar
rigspelt rigspelt is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,187
Thanks: 0
Thanked 19 Times in 17 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by riphonda View Post
I am now in the process of rewiring and notice that on the "sticky" wiring schematic there is no wire showing from the alternator to the battery except the orange wire coming from the alternator through the ignition switch. Shouldn't there be an additional wire of greater size going directly to the battery/ battery switch to accommodate charging?
The orange wire carries the alternator's output, if it is on the correct alternator terminal. There should be continuity in the positive side of the boat's circuit back to the engine start battery, which is how the alternator output charges the battery, but that continuity usually is via more than one wire. For example, in that kind of setup I might look for a wire from the battery terminal on the ignition switch to the battery terminal on the starter (perhaps via an ammeter, as in Shawn's case), and a big red cable from there to the positive post on the engine start battery via a battery switch. In my case, I run the alternator output through a very short cable from the alternator to the battery post on the starter , and from there run both a wire to the battery terminal on the ignition switch, and a large red cable to positive post on the battery (via switch). The wires must be sized correctly, as you note. I find it valuable to draw a schematic for the charging system on the boat, labelling the posts on the ignition switch, alternator, starter solenoid and battery, and labelling the wire colours and sizes, so I can verify the wiring against standards.
__________________
1974 C&C 27

Last edited by rigspelt; 03-30-2009 at 03:51 PM. Reason: Removed "solenoid"
Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2009, 09:37 AM
High Hopes
This message has been deleted by High Hopes. Reason: now i'm confused
  #4   IP: 192.60.230.125
Old 03-30-2009, 10:01 AM
High Hopes's Avatar
High Hopes High Hopes is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Fairfax, VA
Posts: 530
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Hello Brendan,

There is an error on the Moyer Marine drawing. The #4 battery cable should not be connected to the starter solenoid. It should be connected to the starter motor through a battery switch or fuse. You can also simplify the alternator wiring if you are not using an ammeter. Let me know (1) if you have a 1-2-BOTH battery switch and (2) if you plan to use an ammeter or not. I will make a drawing for you.

Steve
Reply With Quote
  #5   IP: 75.140.235.49
Old 03-30-2009, 10:27 AM
John Owen John Owen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Need wiring diagram, need help please

Hello,

Just bought an old Islander 33 with an A4 engine. Had the starter and alternator rebuilt and am redoing the wiring for the whole ignition and recharging system. It was a big mess. I desperately need help figuring out the correct wiring diagram between the battery, starter, ignition switch (3 posts, SOL, BAT, IGN), coil, and alternator. I don't want to screw anything up by wiring it wrong and causing damage.

Please help this amateur electrician who just wants to get out of the harbor and sail, but safely return at the end of the day.

Thanks,

John Owen
Reply With Quote
  #6   IP: 138.88.162.86
Old 03-30-2009, 11:42 AM
msauntry's Avatar
msauntry msauntry is offline
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Annapolis, MD
Posts: 505
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
My Mando 55 amp alternator has a Ignition wire going to the excite terminal on the alternator and a short fat cable going to the starter where it meets up with the main battery cable.

Simple answer is yes, you should have two wires. Big one carries the current, little one senses how much it needs to carry.

If you want to keep your charging system simple, eliminate the ammeter and just use a voltmeter. But if its already wired in an existing system, there's no great harm in keeping it.

Last edited by msauntry; 03-30-2009 at 11:44 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #7   IP: 206.125.176.3
Old 03-30-2009, 02:18 PM
sastanley's Avatar
sastanley sastanley is online now
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Solomons, MD
Posts: 7,016
Thanks: 1,134
Thanked 600 Times in 442 Posts
John,

The diagram being referred to is here -- > http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214

I would recommend following this thread as well, as folks like Steve M. have lots more electrical experience than myself, and can probably help you out since they've noticed a few inconsistencies in that diagram.
__________________
-Shawn
"Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109
"Twice Around" - '77 C-30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold - SOLD! (no longer a two boat owner!!)
http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic3231_6.gif
Reply With Quote
  #8   IP: 142.68.117.65
Old 03-30-2009, 05:31 PM
rigspelt's Avatar
rigspelt rigspelt is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,187
Thanks: 0
Thanked 19 Times in 17 Posts
http://knowledgebase.engines1.com/de...30&Lang=1&SID=, download the A4 operator's manual, and scroll down to the schematics under "electrical systems".
__________________
1974 C&C 27
Reply With Quote
  #9   IP: 70.108.167.190
Old 03-31-2009, 12:45 AM
High Hopes's Avatar
High Hopes High Hopes is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Fairfax, VA
Posts: 530
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Basic 12 volt wiring

Everything else hangs off this.
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #10   IP: 64.231.81.11
Old 03-31-2009, 02:16 AM
67c&ccorv's Avatar
67c&ccorv 67c&ccorv is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: London, ON
Posts: 1,559
Thanks: 4
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMarkowski View Post
Hello Brendan,

There is an error on the Moyer Marine drawing. The #4 battery cable should not be connected to the starter solenoid. It should be connected to the starter motor through a battery switch or fuse. You can also simplify the alternator wiring if you are not using an ammeter. Let me know (1) if you have a 1-2-BOTH battery switch and (2) if you plan to use an ammeter or not. I will make a drawing for you.

Steve
From the "Moyer Marine suggestions for rewiring the Atomic 4 DC system" as supplied in their rewiring kit;

1) Main battery cables: ABYC standards do not require a large fuse to protect the main battery cables running to the starter itself, as long as a cut off switch is installed to disconnect the batteries when not in use. However, Nigel Calder and the people at West Marine do recommend fuse protection within the main positive battery cable, pointing to the devastating consequences resulting from a direct short (e.g., if a wrench were to fall on the main battery terminal of the the starter solenoid.) If you wish to purchase such protection, we believe that a 200amp fuse would be a good choice to provide for starter operation, and to protect the circuit."

Cheers! (I have mine and am starting the work.)
Reply With Quote
  #11   IP: 142.68.117.65
Old 03-31-2009, 05:44 AM
rigspelt's Avatar
rigspelt rigspelt is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,187
Thanks: 0
Thanked 19 Times in 17 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMarkowski View Post
Everything else hangs off this.
Thanks Steve - handy image. I've been playing with a basic DC sketch here too.

One proviso: components, wire and fuse sizes vary from boat to boat, along with other details. ABYC Standard E-11 is very expensive, and it certainly is not a cookbook (cannot replace expert advice, which I am not), but worth a read. Apparently it is printed out for reading in some larger boating stores in the US. Both Calder and Wing are worth owning -- much cheaper and packed with practical information that refers to the standards.
__________________
1974 C&C 27
Reply With Quote
  #12   IP: 142.68.117.65
Old 03-31-2009, 07:09 AM
rigspelt's Avatar
rigspelt rigspelt is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,187
Thanks: 0
Thanked 19 Times in 17 Posts
When considering fuses, consider the risk of fire should the fuse blow. Consider whether the fuse and holder have ignition-protected rating, and even if they do, consider surrounding structures.
__________________
1974 C&C 27
Reply With Quote
  #13   IP: 192.60.230.125
Old 03-31-2009, 10:53 AM
High Hopes's Avatar
High Hopes High Hopes is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Fairfax, VA
Posts: 530
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Hi 67,

Maybe "error" is too strong a word. The Moyer Marine drawing is specifically about engine wiring, not about the 12 volt system in general. Also, I use the term "starter motor connection" even though the motor to battery connection is on the solenoid. Anywho, I hope the drawing helped. This stuff confuses me as well. - Steve

Last edited by High Hopes; 03-31-2009 at 10:54 AM. Reason: typos
Reply With Quote
  #14   IP: 192.60.230.125
Old 03-31-2009, 11:29 AM
High Hopes's Avatar
High Hopes High Hopes is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Fairfax, VA
Posts: 530
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Hi Rigsy,

I have read the electrical parts of the ABYC standards, although I cannot remember where I found them. It was on the net somewhere.

Of course, West Marine will recommend the added fuses. I suspect that West Marine and other business reps are heavily involved with ABYC. There are problems with trying to make things foolproof. In this case, the extra fuse adds cable length, two more connection points, and introduces complexity and decreases reliability.

I have not seen any real failure analysis in ABYC literature - like the kind that is done on toasters which can otherwise set our house on fire. Even washing machine reliability computations include things like Mean Time Between Failure (MTBF) data.

I fear that ABYC will make boating more expensive and out of reach in an already politically ambiguous environment. I suspect that boating will go the way of airplane ownership, and the so-called do-gooders at ABYC will be one of the reasons.

Best, Steve

BTW, a fuse will not stop the wrench-across-a-battery disasters.
Reply With Quote
  #15   IP: 75.67.203.22
Old 04-04-2009, 02:29 PM
riphonda riphonda is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 18
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Wiring...

Thank you Steve, Rigspelt et al. for the replies. I havent been on to check the thread because after I posted the thread didnt show up since i am such a new member to the forum! I am still into this project, I have got the new ammeter and havent hooked anything up yet to my 1&2 battery switch. Ive been side tracked by a keel re-bed and rudder post stuffing box/ quadrant (radial wheel) replacement. But again thanks to all, I am sure this info is sufficient and then some when i get back to wiring. Cheers to all! Brendan.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wiring High Hopes Electrical 19 10-21-2012 10:19 AM
ACR and Atomic 4 rigspelt Electrical 69 07-13-2009 03:58 PM
Wire size from battery to starter for A4? rigspelt Electrical 3 09-07-2008 06:56 AM
How to hook up ammeter? Baltimore Sailor Electrical 5 06-27-2008 09:40 PM
alternator wire wlevin Electrical 2 09-11-2007 09:47 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


Universal® is a registered trademark of Westerbeke Corporation

Copyright © 2004-2024 Moyer Marine Inc.

All Rights Reserved