Need A4 help and guidance in Bellingham WA

[junaido]

Just bought a Catalina 27 with an A4 in Bellingham, WA. Would like to get some help and advice on how to operate this engine and determine the condition of it. We plan to motor-sail to Seattle soon so it is imperative that we at least have a good grasp of the basics. This forum has very useful information but I am thinking half an hour with a knowledgable guy would be more helpful than days of perusing the threads on various forums.

Would really apprecaite some local A4 owner who can meet us at the boat, or failing that some local mechanic recommendations.

Thanks,

J.

[JOHN COOKSON]

We Don't Believe In Mechanics

This is a forum of do it your self people but we'll meet you half way: Post the mechanics work plan and we'll comment on it. If the mechanics work plan does not include a compression check have no further dealings with him.

Surprise: Buying a boat is a lot like getting married. You've got to like (and maybe even love) it. It's not about money.

TRUE GRIT

[hanleyclifford]

Getting Started

If you are new to the A4 the best move you can make is to get the Service and Overhaul Manual available on this site.

[ILikeRust]

Based on what I've read here on this forum as well as my own experience, you likely will have a hard time finding a mechanic who is qualified to work on your Atomic 4 and who also is willing to do so. Many mechanics these days don't want to work on "those old gas engines" - I still don't know why, because it is a very simple engine to work on and repair.

First thing I would do is buy the Moyer Service and Overhaul Manual. Give that a good read, and you will get an excellent and thorough overview of how the engine is put together, its key features and how to maintain and repair it.

I would suggest the following at a very minimum:

1. Check the compression on all four cylinders.

2. Determine whether the engine has electronic ignition or points and condensor, and make sure the fly weights in the distributor are free and properly operating.

3. Check the condition of the spark plugs, wires, alternator belt and cooling water hoses. (I'm assuming it is still raw water cooled).

4. Check the condition of the carburetor and fuel filter (what kind of fuel filter does it have?)

5. Check the condition of the water pump and impeller.

6. Change the oil for fresh 30 weight.

Do you have any service or maintenance records from the previous owner? If not, I would be inclined to replace the water pump impeller, since you don't know how old it is - unless it looks essentially brand new once you open it up.

Do you have any specific questions? It's easier for the gang here to answer questions than to try to provide a comprehensive overview.

The good thing is that the Atomic 4 is a pretty simple and reliable engine.

[ILikeRust]

Also, buy yourself a bottle or three of Marvel Mystery Oil.

[wmmulvey]

Need A4 help

J.

All the above replys are absolutely correct.

Top on my priority list would be an inspection of the packing gland. If thats worn out you will take on a lot of water.

Heres a couple of links on this subject.

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/stuffing_box&page=1

http://www.diybob.com/diyPackingGland.htm

Bill

[jbsoukup]

when was the last time it ran?

[wmmulvey]

Need A4 help

J.

Additonal info links

http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/atomic4/atomic4specs.htm

http://pearsonvanguard.homestead.com/files/atomic4.htm

http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=525

http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/atomic4manual/a4manual.htm

Bill

[junaido]

Thanks for all the helpful links and advice. We bought this boat at marina auction so unfortunately the previous owner is out of the picture. I did find a receipt from a local marine service company for $400 for some carb work done in 2006. Unfortunately that company (Boondock Marine in Bellingham ) burnt down and is no longer in operation. The engine is raw-water cooled. Has a Racor fuel filter. The oil looked clean and full, the spark plug wires also appear in good condition. I didn't pull the spark plugs but plan to do that this weekend. I put in fresh gas (87 octane with ethanol) and new marine battery. The engine cranks fine with the new battery so I guess the starter is OK, but it did not start. I am wondering if there is valve on the fuel tank that I missed or maybe I need to manually prime the fuel ? Engine seems OK to my untrained eye. No big leaks, oil stains or major rust. Basically its just been sitting for a while. I have had other boats with outboards and inboard diesel (FWC Westerbeke 20B) but this is my first time with owning a sailboat with an inboard gas engine. Based on this forum I am actually kind of looking forward to making it work. Will come back with specific questions and pictures if I am unable to resuscitate it this weekend. One question I did have, the consensus seems to be to crank the engine with the raw water intake closed. Will that not damage the water pump impeller if the engine starts up ? How long can you run an engine like this with the raw water shut off ?

[CalebD]

...
One question I did have, the consensus seems to be to crank the engine with the raw water intake closed. Will that not damage the water pump impeller if the engine starts up ? How long can you run an engine like this with the raw water shut off ?

The reason you keep the raw water intake valve closed is so you do not pump a ton of water into the engine and exhaust systems. If you pump too much water and the engine does not start then that water CAN flow back into the engine block - which is way worse then ruining a water pump impeller.
The water pump can run dry for quite some time but a $20 impeller is a lot cheaper then having to deal with flooded pistons, manifold etc.

Make sure you have clean fuel. Drain your carburetor - there is a bolt that allows all the gas to drain out - catch the gas and check for crud or water in there. Detach the gas feed line to the carb and see if you get fuel pumping in when you briefly crank the engine.
You need clean fuel, air and spark to make the A4 run. Having nice clean fresh lubricating oil does not hurt either.
Good luck.

[Marian Claire]

Electric or mechanical fuel pump? Pics here may help determine what you have. http://www.moyermarine.com/cgi-bin/s...rebuilder.html
Dan S/V Marian Claire

[jpian0923]

Here is another useful link for seeing exploded views of various parts of the engine and accessories. I don't recommend purchasing from that site though. Moyer has the parts cheaper, readily available and great support staff.

http://www.marinedieseldirect.com/catalogs/catalog.php?manufacturer=Universal&model=Atomic%204&catalog=200150&printparts=200150&printservice=&printoperators=

[joe_db]

Good advice so far.
+1 about the mechanics! *Most* of them want nothing to do with an A4. They are likely to take one look and tell you it is hopeless and you need a diesel or they'll screw around with it and make it worse
If you ask around there may be one or two shops around that like dealing with them. I am lucky in my area we have an old time A4 shop around plus we are close to Moyer Since the A4 is really a 1920s era engine at heart with a few updates, asking around the local antique engine/tractor*/old powerboat scene might uncover a mechanic that would be good on A4s.

As for your current problem, make sure the plugs are dry and give her a shot of ether. If the engine runs briefly and stops, you aren't getting gas.


*while the A4 is LIKE a tractor engine and you may be told it IS one, it is most certainly not. If you look at the lack of a bellhousing and how the tranny connects, there is no way the A4 could ever be anything but a boat engine.

[ILikeRust]

Do you have an electric fuel pump, or a mechanical one?

If it is mechanical, you probably have to prime it - it has a lever for manually doing that.

If it is electrical, it likely is connected to an oil pressure sensing switch (OPSS), which prevents the fuel pump from pumping fuel until it senses enough oil pressure, which should happen with a few seconds of cranking. Check your OP when cranking and see what you get. If necessary, you can bypass the OPSS with a little jumper so that the fuel pump runs when you turn on the switch, just to be sure the carb is getting gas.

You say you're actually kinda looking forward to making it work - welcome to the club! You very well might find that tinkering with your A4 becomes a bit addictive.

At the very least, you'll find it very rewarding when you get the beast to awaken from its long slumber - which I pretty much guarantee it will - and you get it to run nice and smoothly.

[Bold Rascal]

Great advice

Your positive attitude towards your new purchase is great as is the advice your getting. I may have missed the advice given already about old gas in the tank. I read where you added fresh, was the tank already empty before you added fresh? Make sure your entire fuel system is CLEAN and leak free, otherwise you'll be solving one problem only to find another. Good luck to you!