Water in through exhaust?

[Talisman]

I have a C&C 27 Mark III
I had water in my oil this year. I did all the checks for leaks, replaced head gasket and did a pressure test on the block. Every thing seam OK.
I built a trailer for launching and hauling and this is the first time I launched with it. The ramp at our marina is fairly steep and the water comes up fairly high on the transom when launching. I am thinking water came in through the exhaust.
Does this sound like a possible cause of my problem. Has anyone else had this experience this and if so how did you solve it.
Chuck

[Kurt]

I haven't had this experience, but I would imagine it is possible. You should have a loop in your wet exhaust hose (the one that connects to the exhaust exit on the transom) that goes higher than the water when you launch your boat. On my C&C 33 MKI, the high part of the loop in the rubber hose is basically at the top of the transom and, unless swells were breaking over the back of the boat, should prevent water from backing up through the exhaust. You can also install a nifty little metal flapper over the exhaust exit on the transom that many people use to prevent water from backing up into the exhaust as well.

[sunnnnseeeker]

My 30 ft C&C has the Exhaust hose to the top of the transom also. I always wondered why that went so high - you've answered that for me - thanks.

Nathan

[Dave O]

I have a C&C 29 Mark I with an A-4, and in the original C&C manual they recommend, as part of winterizing, that you plug the exhaust pipe with a wooden plug to prevent moisture entering the exhaust system That might be an easy and cheap way to prevent water entry during launch. Removing the plug after launch, of course, is recommended.

As an aside, and a bit off topic, South Shore Yachts in St. Catharines tell me they can send the original C&C builder's file for your specific C&C if you have the serial number. I don't know what a builder's file looks like, but as the cost is only $35.00 I ordered one out of curosity.

[David Masury]

I have a C&C 27 MKlll as well. I do not think that you are getting water into your engine when you launch.... the exhuast outlet is low on the transom, but if you follow the loop it rises up to under the deck for the length o fthe cockpit and then down to the muffler.

You may have a small leak in your head gasket or excesive amounts of condensation. There is a unit that you can purchase that goes over your exhuast flange on the transom, sort of a ball check valve which prevents water from entering from the outside.... I have seen them on other boats but I do not know where to get one.

Best of luck,

David

[msauntry]

A simple plug is all you need to fix this when launching. But I agree with the other guy who doubts it got in this way. I have a loop to the underside of the deck, plus a Vetus waterlift muffler. I've had my cockpit filled several times over the course of a VERY long day with water from waves breaking over the stern and it never got into the exhaust enough to cause a problem.

If your stern deck was awash during launch, and your hose doesn't go up high, and you don't have a muffler that can collect any water, then that might be the problem and a plug will fix it. Otherwise, I'd investigate other causes. Leaky head gasket for one...

Happy wrenching.

[Kurt]

Dave O -- I actually spoke to South Shore Yachts when I bought my C&C 33 MKI as I was concerned it had a balsa cored hull. They are very familiar with the build specs of these boats and assured me that the MKI hull was not balsa cored, but some later models and larger models were. I would also be curious what the builder's file is. Let us C&C owners know what it is when you get yours - you can post in the C&C area of the forum.

Thanks!

[sunnnnseeeker]

My 30 ft C&C MKI DOES have balsa core. Unfortunately the port side deck chain plate cover leaked and neglect over time allowed the core to get wet which resulted in the core to rot and then the deck was very spongy. I drilled many holes in the port deck rail cover and injected about a gallon of West Systems Epoxy in the deck. This made the deck very solid.

I am sure the cabin top also has a balsa core. I have a problem with the cabin top. I think the core has not rotted but I have about a 4 foot area where the cover is soft on the cabin top. I think the balsa core has come apart from the fiberglass and now I have 3 independent layers (cover, core and interior) not connected to each other. Has anyone else seen this on their boat? I am not sure what the fix is yet but I am thinking more holes and more West Systems. Any advice from anyone?

Nathan

[sunnnnseeeker]

Sorry, I missed the "hull" part. My MKI DOES NOT have a Balsa Core hull. Only the deck.

Nathan

[Dave O]

I'll be pleased to describe the information I get from the builder's file when it arrives.

Sunnnnseeeeker ... for the delamination problem you describe you may want to try this:

www.cncphotoalbum.com. On the left side of the page click "Do-It-Yourself". Then on the right side of the page "Rot Repair Delamination". For a wet balsa cored deck also see "Rot Repair Wood Cored Decks".

Also www.cc27association.com. Click "Black Arts". Then "Genoa Tracks". This site is geared to C&C27 but construction techniques and repairs are similiar to many sizes.

Dave

[JimG]

I've replaced several sections of the deck on my R-33 (deck is plywood core with balsa in the important areas). I just cut the headliner out with a roto-zip tool, scraped out the old material, and epoxied/glassed in new marine plywood and balsa. In some places, I was able to re-use the headliner preserving the pattern. In another spot, I just kept glassing until I had the equivalent of a headliner.

There are some photos on my personal webpage on www.ranger-yachts.org (follow the links).

[msmith10]

This really doesn't apply to the A4 forum but I'll extend the thread. This is a better forum than the C&C forum. I have a c&c 30 Mk 1. I purchased the builders file last year. It's interesting-- it contained the invoice and bill of sale from the factory to the dealer, the options list included on the boat with pricing (total price to dealer was $22,868), customs declaration, equipment checklist from factory, quality control checklist from factory, punchlist of items to be fixed from factory inspector, and a few other misc customs forms. It was worth $35.
Areas of most frequent delamination include chainplates (as you discovered), stanchion bases, pedestal base, and any fitting which pierces the cored deck or cabin roof. You're lucky if drillilng holes and filling with epoxy worked. For large areas, you must cut the fibertglass , remove and replace saturated core, then replace and reglass cut out area. The hull is not cored. You could, however, have blisters on the hull although my boat has never had any.
We C&C owners are pretty lucky in having fairly good access to the engines. I would like to replace the solid mounts someday, though. Rubber mounts would quiet things down a little.

[Talisman]

Water in through exhaust?

Thanks for all your replies.
I went to the boat this on Thursday and got back today. I checked the exhaust hose and found that the loop you mentioned is there but only goes about half way up the transom, so I am going to replace this with something longer so I can get a higher loop. This should be a loop like an inverted toilet trap right?
Can I buy this exhaust hose at and Auto supply store?
Another question: When I did the pressure test on the block I pumped the pressure to 17 psi and left it for an hour. The pressure did not even drop a needles width. Shouldn't this indicate that the head gasket is OK? I replaced it last fall.
Chuck

[sunnnnseeeker]

Dave,

Thanks for the notice about the CNC web site. I didn't know that was available. Some good information there.

Jim,

I am very impressed with what you have done with your boat. Thanks for sharing.

Talisman,

What is a pressure test on the block? How was that performed? I can't imagine any engine will hold compressed air in the block for an hour. Maybe I'll learn something..please let me know.

To answer your question about the head gasket. If it is not leaking and you have good compression in each cylinder chances are very good the gasket is fine. Why are you thinking it my not be if you changed it last year? You may want to check the torque on the head nuts to make sure they are still tight where they should be.
Thanks.
Nathan

[Talisman]

Pressure test

A pressure test puts the water jacket and head under pressure and if there is a cracked block, head or leaky gasket the pressure will not be maintained.

Here is what I did:
-I took off the hose from the water pump to the block and plugged it.

-Then I took off the hose that goes from the thermostat to the exhaust manifold.

-I then attached a pressure gauge and a schrader valve and pumped the block up to 17 psi with air, then left it for one hour.

If there is a leak anywhere the pressure will not be maintained.
Chuck