Return to the home page...

Go Back   Moyer Marine Atomic 4 Community - Home of the Afourians > Discussion Topics > Drive Train / Propellers

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   IP: 68.104.69.129
Old 12-27-2008, 12:44 AM
roadnsky's Avatar
roadnsky roadnsky is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lake Mead, NV
Posts: 3,104
Thanks: 24
Thanked 467 Times in 309 Posts
Propeller Shaft Leak

Late model A4 in a '78 Ranger 30...
I have a leak on my propeller shaft that seems to be getting worse. It appears to be dripping where the collar bolts tighten on the shaft. Here is a picture. Anyone have a suggestion for stopping or slowing this leak down without pulling the boat out of the water?
Thanks,
Jerry

Last edited by roadnsky; 05-06-2012 at 12:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2   IP: 69.214.6.198
Old 12-27-2008, 08:52 PM
marthur's Avatar
marthur marthur is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Posts: 831
Thanks: 25
Thanked 33 Times in 28 Posts
The collar bolts are known as a "stuffing box." They are supposed to drip just a little when the shaft is turning. They are also easily adjusted.

Have you tried adjusting the stuffing box?
Second, have you replaced the packing lately?
Reply With Quote
  #3   IP: 98.141.38.22
Old 12-28-2008, 05:33 AM
s/v Dearbhail s/v Dearbhail is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Norfolk, Virginia
Posts: 69
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Looking at the picture, you can see the thinner lock nut, Loosen that, then turn the larger packing nut until the leak stops with the shaft NOT turning. It should leak a few drops a minute when the shaft is rotating.

You can also add more packing if needed. It looks like you have a lot of room to unthread the packing nut and slide it to the right. Some water will trickle in, but it's not bad.
__________________
Mark
1970, Northwind 29, #5
Reply With Quote
  #4   IP: 74.235.209.10
Old 12-28-2008, 06:22 AM
jhwelch's Avatar
jhwelch jhwelch is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 477
Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Here's a little tip for those disadvantaged with poor access to their
stuffing box area---it's easier to loosen the packing nut and then rotate
the lock nut then the other way around. There's a lot more surface
area to grip on the packing nut. I have to access mine kneeling in
front of the engine, laying on top of the motor, and putting my head
between the back of the engine and under the gas take--thank goodness
I have long arms!

Another tip, tie a string to your wrench in case it slips out of your hands.

-jonathan
Reply With Quote
  #5   IP: 68.104.69.129
Old 12-28-2008, 10:59 AM
roadnsky's Avatar
roadnsky roadnsky is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lake Mead, NV
Posts: 3,104
Thanks: 24
Thanked 467 Times in 309 Posts
Thanks for all of the informational replies.

I just bought her a couple of months ago and have been spending my days getting her into shape. (Water pump, hoses, thermostat and housing, hot exhaust section)

marthur - Haven't tried adjusting yet. I was afraid I'd open up too much leaking. Not sure when it was last re-packed.

dearbhail - I got the same suggestion from West Marine. Right now the leak is a bit too much for me (about a drip every 10-12 sec) I'm gonna try the tightening first. If not, well another project for the punch list...

By the way jhwelch, I've learned the string-to-the-wrench trick the hard way.
Thanks again for the replies!
-jerry
Reply With Quote
  #6   IP: 68.104.69.129
Old 12-28-2008, 03:40 PM
roadnsky's Avatar
roadnsky roadnsky is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lake Mead, NV
Posts: 3,104
Thanks: 24
Thanked 467 Times in 309 Posts
Update...

Ok, I tried loosening the lock nut and turning the packing nut but could only lessen the leak to about a drip every 20 seconds.
So it's on to re-packing or adding to the stuffing.

Does anyone know what "size" the stuffing is?

I went to West Marine and there are various sizes and the Rep couldn't tell me which one would fit...
Reply With Quote
  #7   IP: 66.168.110.11
Old 12-28-2008, 04:32 PM
julian hood julian hood is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Milledgeville, Ga.
Posts: 37
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Leak

If you are getting a drip every 20 seconds that should be about right. A little water coming out helps cool the shaft. Sometimes if you mess with it to much you just open another can of worms.

Julian
Reply With Quote
  #8   IP: 68.104.69.129
Old 12-28-2008, 04:41 PM
roadnsky's Avatar
roadnsky roadnsky is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lake Mead, NV
Posts: 3,104
Thanks: 24
Thanked 467 Times in 309 Posts
Thanks Julian.
I should have mentioned that the drip is with the shaft NOT turning (boat at rest). It's not bad, it's just a lot of water pooling after a few days.
I'll eventually re-pack the stuffing since I don't know when this was last done (if ever)

I'd still appreciate if anyone know what size that stuffing is...
Reply With Quote
  #9   IP: 69.118.236.222
Old 12-29-2008, 02:37 AM
tenders tenders is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harlem YC, City Island, NY
Posts: 1,439
Thanks: 46
Thanked 259 Times in 170 Posts
Buy several sizes. Return whatever you don't use. Make sure you have some sort of a hook tool on hand to dig out the old flax from inside the nut. The water flow while you're doing this looks scarier than it is, but it's too much to allow you to take a leisurely trip with the old flax to the chandlery to get just the right size. Also, you may not be able to tell the right size from the crushed old flax anyway.

The right way to repack the flax is to use three concentric rings of flax with the cut joints offset 120 degrees from each other -- NOT with a single spiral of flax.
Reply With Quote
  #10   IP: 74.235.209.147
Old 12-29-2008, 06:38 AM
jhwelch's Avatar
jhwelch jhwelch is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 477
Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Over the course of time a propeller shaft will become scored, so you might
want to check that too, if you ever unscrew your packing nut and slide
it forwards to expose that section of the shaft.

Here is what my old shaft looked like last summer:
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #11   IP: 144.160.98.31
Old 12-29-2008, 07:12 AM
rheaton rheaton is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Rockaway, NJ
Posts: 134
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Sir, the links below provide some good tips on stuffing box maintenance. You could find more via google. The book "Mechanical and Electrical Manual" by Nigel Caldor is also an excellent source of information about all boat systems.

Best of luck.


http://www.boatus.com/boattech/Casey/StuffingBox.htm
http://www.alohaowners.com/pages/pro...uffing_box.htm
Reply With Quote
  #12   IP: 68.104.69.129
Old 12-29-2008, 10:02 AM
roadnsky's Avatar
roadnsky roadnsky is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lake Mead, NV
Posts: 3,104
Thanks: 24
Thanked 467 Times in 309 Posts
tenders - good idea. Should have thought of that...
rheaton - thanks for the links
jhwelch - something else to "worry" about!

Good info from everyone. I love this resource!
Reply With Quote
  #13   IP: 70.62.137.132
Old 12-29-2008, 11:49 AM
msmith10's Avatar
msmith10 msmith10 is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 474
Thanks: 19
Thanked 62 Times in 46 Posts
There is a material called "Drip Less Moldable Packing" sold by West and presumably others that is like a modeling clay and is meant to pack the stuffing box in place of flax packing. It's pricey but has good reviews. You'd still have to make sure you get all the old packing out before putting this stuff in. Use little picks (the "dental" hooks sold at various stores work well for this).
Reply With Quote
  #14   IP: 216.70.184.248
Old 12-29-2008, 01:32 PM
roadnsky's Avatar
roadnsky roadnsky is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lake Mead, NV
Posts: 3,104
Thanks: 24
Thanked 467 Times in 309 Posts
I also saw a "Teflon" material that the West Rep said is reputed not to leak, but the pessimist in me makes me tend to stick with tried and true methods and materials.
My slip neighbor told me the Teflon stuffing had a tendency towards the shaft running hotter.

Anyway, another project for the (not shrinking) punch list...
Reply With Quote
  #15   IP: 98.220.232.114
Old 12-30-2008, 09:52 PM
blind navigator's Avatar
blind navigator blind navigator is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Packing material

I've had good luck with PTFE Flax packing by Western Pacific Trading (I'm pretty sure I got it at West Marine), and the three separate rings with the splits (carefully cut on a diagonal) staggered around the shaft. Smear a big finger full of Superlube Teflon grease (Edson sells it to squirt in their pedestal bearings-you may be able to find it locally) in the fitting before you screw it up and they'll last for several seasons. It really hard to be sure you've got all of the old packing out before you put the new stuff in, but it's worth the effort. You'll probably need 1/8th inch or 3/16th inch diameter packing.

Once it's stopped leaking (shaft not turning), it's about right if it drips once or twice a minute with the shaft turning.

As a safety measure put a stainless steel clamp around the shaft (to the right of the fitting in your photo) so if the engine coupling ever does let go, you won't loose the shaft and prop out of the stern tube.
Reply With Quote
  #16   IP: 68.104.69.129
Old 12-31-2008, 10:34 AM
roadnsky's Avatar
roadnsky roadnsky is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lake Mead, NV
Posts: 3,104
Thanks: 24
Thanked 467 Times in 309 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by blind navigator View Post
You'll probably need 1/8th inch or 3/16th inch diameter packing.

blind navigator - I'm following tender's advice and buying various sizes since I'm planing to do this with the boat in the water. Good suggestion on the Teflon grease. Thanks.
It's a project that I've slated for next week, so I'll be sure to follow up and post here with the results as well as what size the flax turns out to be...
-jerry
Reply With Quote
  #17   IP: 69.118.236.222
Old 12-31-2008, 12:05 PM
tenders tenders is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harlem YC, City Island, NY
Posts: 1,439
Thanks: 46
Thanked 259 Times in 170 Posts
> three separate rings with the splits (carefully cut on a diagonal) staggered around the shaft

Oh yeah, I forgot about that -- it's important, too. Cutting the flax on a diagonal will lessen the chance that you end up with a gap in the loop when the gland is tightened down. Cutting the flax straight will almost guarantee that you'll have a gap.

I replaced my packing gland with a Lasdrop shaft seal 13 years ago. I've been satisfied with it, but it hasn't been a perfect experience. For any serious adjustment or part replacement you have to pull the shaft, which is a bear of a job on my boat. My reasoning was that shaft seals protect the shaft better, but the fact is that shafts aren't very expensive to have made up--it's the LABOR associated with messing with the shaft seal, stern tube, etc. that's the real hassle--either grueling personally or expensive to pay somebody else to do. If I every have to revisit the shaft sealing system again from scratch I'd give very serious consideration to a regular gland with the Teflon-impregnated packing. All the wear parts can be replaced without removing the shaft, except the hose surrounding the tube, which should last a really long time.

>My slip neighbor told me the Teflon stuffing had a tendency towards the shaft running hotter.

I think this is true only if you adjust it so that it doesn't drip at all. That's possible with the Teflon system but dangerous with a non-Teflon system. Personally I expect a little water in the bilge anyway and would just as soon have a slow, cooling drip from the Teflon and not worry about heat or excessive shaft wear.
Reply With Quote
  #18   IP: 207.200.116.138
Old 01-01-2009, 02:00 AM
Jlmatt Jlmatt is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Albuquerque NM
Posts: 71
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
another excellent link

This is the best explanation and description of the procedure I have found:
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/stuffing_box
Look at the 2nd page also.

Jean-Luc
Reply With Quote
  #19   IP: 24.215.77.251
Old 01-01-2009, 05:50 PM
Mike Jenkins Mike Jenkins is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Stellarton N.S.
Posts: 36
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Shaft leak

Hi folks,

I also have some scoring on my shaft in the area of the packing gland and some thinning at the cutlass bearing area as well. I have a 1" bronze shaft. Should the shaft be machined smooth or even possibly built-up and machined?

Just a note of caution. I loosen the jam nut and the gland last summer to inspect the end of the shaft. Retighened the packing nut and thought I tighted the jam nut. After running the engine for a bit and shutting down I noticed an odd sound and looked around. It turned out to be full annular flow of water around the saft as the packing nut backed completely off. Would have been a disaster if I left the boat for any amount of time. But not enough flow to prevent changing the packing.

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #20   IP: 69.118.236.222
Old 01-01-2009, 06:28 PM
tenders tenders is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harlem YC, City Island, NY
Posts: 1,439
Thanks: 46
Thanked 259 Times in 170 Posts
You almost certainly won't find it cost-effective to rebuild a shaft. New shafts just aren't that complicated or expensive to make.

It is possible to change the length of the rubber tube that wraps around the shaft and the stern tube so that the packing gland contacts the shaft in a different place, but you can't do much about the cutless bearing.
Reply With Quote
  #21   IP: 64.203.32.52
Old 01-01-2009, 11:15 PM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is online now
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Grove, Oklahoma
Posts: 5,035
Thanks: 711
Thanked 1,289 Times in 839 Posts
Cool Shaft leak

Last year I changed over to the Indigo prop which increased my cruising rpms by 20-25%. My sfaft packing which was quite old finally "Cooked" and needed to be replaced. My shaft was removed in the water taken to a shop and "peen-straightened" however due to the shaft being worn so badly I needed to move the packing position by extending the tube a bit. The down side was that now I had to run the packing where some of the peening took place. Poor planning!! I tried three times to get the "flax type" packing to seal but kept burning it up due to the roughness (peening leaves very tiny-tiny marks when done properly) of the peen marks. The packing would heat up even when dripping every few seconds (way to much) and the wax would run out the end of the packing gland and then water would just pour in. A friend talked me into using the good "Gore" packing material from West marine. It's not cheap and it never failed. It does run a little warmer because it doesn't let as much water run through as it is a tighter seal. It also will withstand considerably more heat and the graphite won't liquify and run out. It is also much easier to work with than any of the other materials available especially the pliable messy type.

Your packing gland looks exactly like the one I was using on a 3/4" shaft and it took 1/4" material. When moving my location I changed the gland and the new one uses 5/16".

I also installed the Gore packing in my rudder packing and it was a vast improvement.

David
Reply With Quote
  #22   IP: 192.128.166.68
Old 01-02-2009, 09:51 AM
rheaton rheaton is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Rockaway, NJ
Posts: 134
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
I did read somewhere, where a person had wear spots in their prop shaft, they removed the shaft and reinserted it switching it end-for-end. This would involve labor, but maybe it's worth considering.

Best of luck.

Take care,

Russ
Reply With Quote
  #23   IP: 71.118.13.238
Old 01-02-2009, 10:57 AM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is online now
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Grove, Oklahoma
Posts: 5,035
Thanks: 711
Thanked 1,289 Times in 839 Posts
Cool the Shaft

Russ, the shaft is different at each end one tapered for the prop and the other with a keyway. It's really easier to relocate the packing gland if there is the space on the shaft to do so.
Reply With Quote
  #24   IP: 68.104.69.129
Old 01-02-2009, 12:46 PM
roadnsky's Avatar
roadnsky roadnsky is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lake Mead, NV
Posts: 3,104
Thanks: 24
Thanked 467 Times in 309 Posts
Shaft Spins In Neutral?

With the packing nut adjusted and spinning/dripping appropriately with the engine running AND while in gear; should the shaft NOT spin when in neutral? The stuffing box isn't hot (slightly warm) after 30 minutes of running in gear.

I seem to remember that before I took this project on, the shaft would spin even when in neutral. Maybe just because the flax was compressed from wear?
-jerry
Reply With Quote
  #25   IP: 68.173.39.97
Old 01-03-2009, 02:01 AM
CalebD's Avatar
CalebD CalebD is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 899
Thanks: 18
Thanked 22 Times in 20 Posts
Spinning shaft in neutral

Roadnsky,
If the shaft is spinning in 'neutral' it is not because of the stuffing box packing - it is because of the transmission/gear shift.
I originally thought that our shaft still would spin in 'neutral' when I ran the engine on the hard - I could see the prop spinning and feel the vibrations (not a good idea by the way - ruins the cutlass bearing which relies on water for lubrication). What I have come to understand about the transmission on my boat is that it not at all like my standard transmission car; where neutral is neutral, 1st is 1st and so on. With the boat transmission the only gears that positively engage are forward and reverse - neutral is somewhere in the middle. I now find that by minute adjustments of the gear shift I can actually get my shaft to stop spinning (for the most part) by gently tapping it a little towards reverse. I know this by doing it with our boat in its cradle on the hard but I now know to look for swales off the stern or current created by the prop in the water while we are at mooring.
I now know that I can play with the forward gear and adjust it down as from 'Full Ahead' to '1/4 speed' by bringing the shift back towards neutral. Actually finding the real neutral with no forward thrust takes a little practice. On our boat it is closer to reverse then right in the middle.
Others have adjusted the reversing gear engagement point of the tranny which is a bit beyond me at the moment. I am quite happy with our thrust in forward when everything is clean (prop, hull etc) but I do not rely much on reverse if I can help it (we have a 2 blade prop).
Your mileage will vary.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to CalebD For This Useful Post:
Hawkeye54 (12-14-2020)
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Water Pump Shaft Leak Erik Cooling System 16 08-14-2011 02:14 PM
Leak behind Impeller Housing mharal Cooling System 0 07-25-2008 12:23 PM
Propeller shaft pulls out of the transmission collar Charles Akins Drive Train / Propellers 2 12-10-2007 09:54 PM
Water pump leak Bryanbt Cooling System 1 10-03-2007 06:50 AM
Bonding the shaft to ground to prevent electrolysis jimjuliem General Interest 1 07-11-2006 05:59 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


Universal® is a registered trademark of Westerbeke Corporation

Copyright © 2004-2024 Moyer Marine Inc.

All Rights Reserved