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  #1   IP: 192.60.230.120
Old 12-08-2009, 04:32 PM
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Gasoline smell

Hello All,

It's nice to be back, except not so good to have a problem. My A4 purrs away beautifully. There may be a prop size / max rpm / barnacle issue, but the real problem is a gasoline smell.

When the engine is running, there is no gas smell. The engine warms up, the blower runs, the engine compartment gets dry, and all is well. But when I return to the boat and open the hatch, the stale gasoline smell is awful. I think this smell was less noticeable when the engine was out of the boat, but I can't remember for sure. The tank was near empty at the time.

The odor seems to be strongest in the compartment where the fuel tank is located. I think the odor is coming from the top of the tank. The vent, fill, and gauge ports are on top of the tank.

The tank is aluminum. Could it have a crack and be leaking?

Also, is there such a thing as a gas detector for gasoline like the Freon sniffers HVAC techs use to find leaks. I can't get my snout to the top of the tank. There is no room for my head.

Any suggestions?

Steve
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Old 12-08-2009, 05:33 PM
tartansailboat tartansailboat is offline
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gasoline smell

I have the same problem. Smell is there when the boat has been closed up and sat for several days. No odor when the engine is running or when the hatches are open. No smell when we sleep aboard even though the hatches are closed. I cannot find any gas tank leak but maybe the fill hose is porous or not well sealed. Have to take apart some of the interior trim to get at the top of the tank, my next job. Let me know if you find the source of your leak.
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Old 12-08-2009, 05:48 PM
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As far as I know my sense of smell is at least average and I can say that I don't think I have ever smelled gas on or about the engine. I think you need to check harder for any fuel leaks. You probably have a very small one some where.

DVD
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Old 12-08-2009, 06:14 PM
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Gas Fume sensor

I bought a gasoline fume detector with a gauge that mounts in the cockpit
firewall several years ago from West marine. I see that it is still for sale
on page 127 of their 2009 catalog. It is model M-1. The only problem
I have had over 7 or so years, is if the sensor became detached from
the underside of the cabin sole and gets dosed in water. That killed it
permanently and it was around $70 bucks or so for a new detector.

Other than that it has worked fine
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Old 12-08-2009, 07:41 PM
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I was convinced I could smell gas when we first put our refitted boat in the water last summer, when I opened up the boat. Everyone else looked in, sniffed and said I was overanxious. I put a paper towel under the carb I had rebuilt and finally found a slow drip, even with the fuel shutoff valve turned off. Replaced the carb with a new one: no leak, and no smell.

There is a thread here somewhere where a bunch of us shared similar tales of finding small gas leaks after carefully tracking down the odour. My new personal rule of thumb: if I can smell gas, there is gas leaking somewhere.
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Old 12-08-2009, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigspelt View Post
My new personal rule of thumb: if I can smell gas, there is gas leaking somewhere.
Absolutely so.

Steve, last fall when we closed up Weetamoe on the jack stands I noticed a strong smell of gasoline when I came back to do some work. We were new to the boat then and the prior owner never shut the petcock, so I hadn't either. I shut the petcock for the first time that day and have never had the smell again. Ever since then I shut the petcock when the engine is off for the night. That's my story; yours may vary. But if you smell it, it's there, and an errant spark will find it.

Mark
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Old 12-08-2009, 08:35 PM
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When I first got my boat, I had the same issue.
Smell of gas in and around the tank AND I noticed it in the lazarette.
I changed the FUEL FILLER hose from the deck plate to the tank.
No more smell whatsoever.
(Neil, not as good as heretofore, but hey...)

Mark also has a good point to make sure you try.
(Make sure and close the petcock)
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Old 12-08-2009, 09:47 PM
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I went through this fire drill recently when my co-owner started complaining about a gasoline smell in the cabin of our Tartan 27. I took our carburator off and cleaned it and kept oil rags under the carb. once I replaced it. There were stains on the rags from gas dripping out of the carb. Spoke to Don Moyer who said that the fuel pump will not stop gas from gravity flowing to the carb. Since then we have religiously turned off the gas petcock/valve and have much improved results. If you want to be really anal about it you should first shut off your main gas petcock/valve and run the engine until all the gas in the filter and lines burns up and the engine dies from fuel starvation. Not really a bad idea anyway as gas sitting in the carb will turn to varnish or drip out into my bilge. I cleaned and painted the bilge so I am more sensitive to keeping it clean now.
Sometimes I even run the engine for a few seconds with the raw water seacock closed to get a little extra water out of the system. Your mileage shall vary.
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Old 12-08-2009, 10:15 PM
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Thanks everybody. Good ideas.

Mark, I do keep the petcock closed although I don't always shut it off at the same time I turn the engine off. It is usually a leaving the boat activity. Sometimes I forget, but it doesn't seem to make a difference, smell-wise, when I return. The valve is as older than Methuselah, but it has a smooth stroke when it is turned and it doesn't seem to leak.

I am using a rubber fuel line from the tank. The original was copper, but I had this problem with the metal line as well.

Caleb, I have run the carburetor dry on two occasions and that didn't help. BTW, if you want to avoid varnish, do not run the bowl dry. Gas needs oxygen to cure. If the bowl is full, there is too much gasoline vapor to allow any curing to take place with the little bit of air that is available.

Rigsy, thanks for the suggestion about the rag under the carb.

Roadinsky and DVD, yes. I fear one day the little leak will become a big problem.

Art, thanks for the recommendation. I will get one of these when we start sleeping overnight. I was actually thinking of a portable unit with a wand to investigate with.

Tartan, I will keep you posted.
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Old 12-08-2009, 10:18 PM
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Steve, is your tank venting system secure - ie. no leakage anywhere and properly routed outside of the hull of the vessel?
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Old 12-08-2009, 10:25 PM
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I have the Xintex MB-1 gasoline detector wired to activate the blower automatically if it senses combustible fumes of any sort. Even with that I still manually shut off the fuel supply when closing up the boat having experienced a carburetor drip a while ago. My shut off valve is just before the carb.
When employing your own personal olfactory system, get your proboscis right down in the bilge, that's where the heavier-than-air gasoline fumes will accumulate.

(There ya go, Jerry - double whammy)
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Old 12-09-2009, 08:51 AM
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Steve:

I have a background in Emergency Services which admittedly colors this response, but perhaps it will help. Assuming you are served by a local volunteer fire company, they will likely have a "sniffer" used to track down and measure dangerous vapors. If you know one of the volunteers or know someone who does, ask about having them stop by (on a non-emergency basis) to see if they can find the source.

I emphasize non-emergency. If you are casual about that part, you may end up with two engines, a truck, a chief's command vehicle, an ambulance, a paramedic unit, and maybe a hazmat unit for good measure.

Bill
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Old 12-09-2009, 11:50 AM
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fuel

Steve, I experienced this same phenomenon last spring. I traced it to a pinhole leak in the bottom corner of my fuel tank. Laying clean paper towels as suggested is a great way to source it. Gas smell is very pungent, if you smell it, it's there. Also, double check your clamps. I was surprised how loose my raw water intake line was to the water pump when winterizing last week.

Neil - is that one shut-off valve the only one you have? I have purchased a 2nd petcock, and I am trying to figure out the best place to put it. My goal is to make fuel shut-off more accessible & more convenient. My current shut off is at the top of the pick up tube on the tank..as you well know, on the C-30 that is not what I would call 'easily accessible' - With my new tank, mine is behind the bottom drawer of the aft galley drawer assembly. That is more convenient than emptying the quarter berth to lift the access board, but it is still a hassle.

For 'regular-every-day-leaving-the-boat-so-I-am-not-relying-on-the-carb-float' to hold all the fuel back, I want to add that second petcock. I have my Racor mounted in the engine compartment, and I was thinking about mounting the fuel shutoff to one side or the other of that...however, your shut off at the carb is interesting..there doesn't necessarily seem to be an issue with fuel in the Racor & fuel pump, the goal seems to keep from relying on the float valve in the carb.

Does that make sense?
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Old 12-09-2009, 01:58 PM
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Angry Filler hose

Three years ago I over filled my fuel tank IE fuel up in the filler hose above the tank and noticed a smell I had not detected before when I went below. I checked the locker containing the fuel tank and it was leeaking through the hose below the clamp on the tank. I drained some fuel and replaced the hose which had completely degraded under the clamp. All better!!!

FYI Dave Neptune
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Old 12-09-2009, 02:27 PM
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fuel leaks

I have found that a small, dental-style mirror and a good light source are invaluable when looking for a slow, weepy-type leak. You have to clean things up well, wipe and dry around suspected leak area and use the light and mirror to get ar really close look at the area. Even very slow weeps show up quite readily. A source of compressed air can be a big help in drying things out in hard to reach areas.

Keep looking. There is a leak somewhere.

Mike
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Old 12-09-2009, 02:41 PM
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Dave, I hear ya on that too. I have the new filler hose hanging in the garage..it is on the 'agenda' for this winter's projects.
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Old 12-09-2009, 04:30 PM
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I had an fuel smell as well. After the mechanic gave it a "clean" bill, it still was occuring so I did my own check and found the carb leaking. I replaced the carb and no more smell. Also in the process, I did shut off the fuel to let the engine starve to get the fuel out of the carb. It worked but, I also believe that in doing so, it sucked some water out of the separator and created moisture in the carb and running issues for about 1 half hour. I still need to replace the water separator as its been a year anyway.
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:45 PM
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Shawn,
The fuel shut off mentioned earlier is in addition to the tank valve shut off. It is actually a 'Y' valve mounted through the dinette riser outboard of the engine and serves as my filter priming and fuel polishing system. "OFF' is the position where all ports are closed. See attached pics and pdf for detail. Notice the price on the valve - $6.00 at Minney's! You'll have to rotate the pdf to view it, sorry.
Attached Images
  
Attached Images
File Type: pdf Fuel System.pdf (26.2 KB, 783 views)
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Last edited by ndutton; 12-09-2009 at 08:14 PM.
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Old 12-09-2009, 08:12 PM
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I suspect a leaking fuel tank. I had an aluminum tank in my 1982 Catalina 30 that looked great from the top - clean and shiny. However this summer, after smelling gas in the cabin, I found a leak at the bottom of the tank by using the paper towel trick. Upon draining and removing my tank I found that the forward bottom edge was severely corroded. The corrosion was keeping it from leaking more. After cleaning off the corrosion I found 4 holes that were between 1/16 and 1/4 inch in diameter. I also found some water at the bottom of the tank, which probably contributed to the corrosive process.

My take home message is you can't tell a tank by it's top.

Best,
Jim Zeller
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Old 12-09-2009, 08:54 PM
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Neil....thanks, great information. I have all the Adobe tools so no problem on rotation...if only everything was as easy as rotating a PDF.

I drained my carb & mech fuel bowl tonight and there was a little bit of garbage in each, so I see the value in the polishing system.

Jim, you are not kidding..elsewhere on this forum I think I've detailed my issue, but it was basically the same...the original aluminum tank held the fuel just fine all winter and one week before planned launch, it sprung the 'tiny' leak in the bottom corner of the tank that started spurting fuel into the bilge when I wiped it..I felt like the kid with his finger in the dike!

edit - Jerry...add this one in to the list!
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Last edited by sastanley; 12-09-2009 at 09:56 PM. Reason: detail
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Old 12-09-2009, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zellerj View Post
I suspect a leaking fuel tank.
My take home message is you can't tell a tank by it's top.
I think I'm voting with Jim.
My slip neighbor has an '80's vintage Catalina 30 and he just had a small fuel leak in his tank (September) also aluminum.
Hmmm, recurring theme?
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Old 12-12-2009, 12:41 AM
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Haven't had a chance to do much sniffing, except to determine that the tank compartment, not the engine compartment is the one that smells.

Interesting threads about a leaking tank. I would have thought that an aluminum tank would be indestructible. The only thing I haven't checked (other than the tank itself) is the fuel gauge sensor fitting. I will put a big glob of plumbers putty on all the tank fittings and see if that fixes the smell. If not, the tank will be pulled. Can't say I am looking forward to draining it. The tank was recently filled.

I will pressure test it when it is cleaned up. I thought I saw some new plastic ones that looked like a great idea.

Admin, nice thought about the fire department. Yes, I do know some folks there, or rather they probably know me as I fell in the drink about a year ago. I owe them some food anyway. I bet they have all kinds of sniffers.
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Old 12-12-2009, 06:28 AM
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Steve,
I had to drain my tank last year and if you have an electric fuel pump, draining the tank is easy. Turn on the blower, disconnect coil, disconnect the fuel hose at the carb, lengthen if necessary, place it in one of several 5 gal jerry cans, turn on ign and pump away.

If your pump is mechanical, you may want to get an electric fuel pump just for this fuel transfer exercise and wire it with alligator clips to the battery (fuse the positive lead). They don't cost that much.
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Old 12-12-2009, 08:08 AM
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I drained the fuel tank on my Tartan 34C a couple of years ago using
a gravity siphon via a long hose to out thru a hose fitting to a
several Jerry jugs under the keel. Best to keep more jugs available
than you think you need unless transferring into you car, which you
may or may not want to do.
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Old 12-12-2009, 10:13 AM
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Steve, I'll chime in on my experience as well.

After replacing all the fuel hose from the carb to the tank, my boat developed a smell too, one week before launch & I found an innocent drip..I wiped the 'drip' and the varnish came off with it and opened the hole...so there I was like the little Dutch kid with his finger in the dike.

Since I had the squeezy bulb installed at the time, my wife & a buddy that was with us, pumped the squeezy bulb while I kept as much in the tank as I could holding my finger over the hole. We ended up with a gallon or so in the bilge, and the rest (I had a full tank as well from being winterized) made it into a big sterlite/tupperware container I had handy. We then transferred to jerry cans. This process of course all happened at night in the rain!

If you can plan ahead similar to Neil, you'll likely have better results. Be careful wiping those innocent drips without being prepared to drain the tank!!

I got one of the poly Moeller fuel tanks. Its dimensions were almost the same as the metal tank it replaced. At the time, I got a good deal ($160) from Amazon.com for an 18 gallon tank. After getting the dimensions straight and getting a part number for the tank I wanted, a simple Google search turned one up at Amazon...With my Amazon Prime I got 2nd day shipping for free! Those guys sell everything!
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