Practical Salior article

[guylogan]

The current issue has a review of an Alberg 35, in it they slam the "ubiquitous Atomic Four" and advocate its replacement with a diesel.
I responded to them..

"I think the "Afourians" would disagree with your wanting to replace the A4 with a diesel including me. I just replaced mine after 44 years of reliable srevice. I looked into conversion and and for alittle over 1/2 the cost could replace the A4 with a brand new one from Moyer Marine, and a much improved version with fresh water cooling electric ign, improved carb and elec fuel pump. Considering the reliablity and ease of maintentence are bonuses that out weight the increase of milage of diesel and of course the engine justed droped in.

Guy Logan Columbia 36 San Diego"

They go on giving Betamarine a plug as being the only Mfg "dedicated" to
supplying a diesel replacement. I look into that and they wanted almost 12 grand for the Kubota and the fun would only start there with different moter mounts, shaft connections and on and on.

Not a very parctical solution.

Guy Logan

[Mo]

I tend to agree with you. The A4 is an easy engine to get parts for, easy to diagnose and repair. Diesel engines, on the other hand, are terrible to get parts for ... IF you can get them they are so overpriced.

Torque and fuel mileage are advantages of diesel but they have problems, hydro-locks, bad fuel etc. Manifolds, water pumps, belts, valves...all of those give trouble on diesels as well. Forget to winterize a diesel engine and see what happens and how much the cost is....very rarely are the "spares" kicking around.

Of course you get the added advantage of the noise...the lighter the boat the louder the drum Then there's the added value of stuffing an undersized light duty diesel in the boat because the space is not large enough for the size required. I move ahead of them when going through Sambro Ledges, wind on the nose, every summer. Allot of the newer boats have a decent size diesel in them and can move pretty good in chop and seas...but too small is not a deal maker.

I like the Beta Marine personally....but I wouldn't put less than a 30 hp in my boat. I'm sure the rep would tell me a smaller one "is just fine". If I was ever to go diesel I would error on the side of more HP. Up to now my A4 has performed admirably...and has towed home it's fair share of diesels.

[ndutton]

Imagine buying a 50 year old boat for $20K and on PracSlr advice repowering. Your $20K boat just became a $30K boat and you haven't even washed it yet. Note to Practical Sailor: not very practical if you ask me.

About sailboat auxiliary size, I agreed with Mo's train of thought when selecting the engine for my Westsail 32. Popular at the time were two cylinder Volvo diesels (known for breaking exhaust valve springs at the worst possible time) and Yanmar was in the early stages of establishing a U.S. foothold. My choice: 50 HP Perkins four cylinder 4-107. What a sweet power package for that boat, intended for world cruising. The folks who bought her from me repowered almost immediately with a 3 cylinder Yanmar (for no good reason but their boat = their choice). After finding the boat for sale in Malaysia 22 years later I was pleased to learn she had been repowered again back to a Perkins 4-108 (same engine, newer model).

Horsepower to spare.

Parts prices (in 1980's dollars)
Starter = $800
Injector pump = $1700
Injectors = $200

Small wonder Perkins acquired Rolls Royce Diesels in the 80's.

[Al Schober]

You guys are preaching to the choir..
Perhaps a nice letter to the editor of Practical Sailor would be in order as 'missionary' work - oh yeah: emphasize their use of the name 'Practical'. Perhaps they'll explain how a new diesel is more 'practical' than an old reliable Atomic 4.

[ndutton]

I've found diesel snobs are not likely to convert even when the facts are presented. They consider us throwback hippie freaks with a death wish. Better for us anyway, every repower makes another A-4 available.

[marthur]

and has towed home it's fair share of diesels

Gotta love it when that happens.

There are a lot of unthinking people out there. There are also a lot of thoughtful people who simple do not have enough experience or knowledge to make an informed decision. And thank goodness for them--that is where the project engines we all read about on the board come from : )

[joe_db]

A little contrarian here - Beta Marine makes EXCELLENT engines and parts are pretty cheap and easy to find. The Kubota block they use is common all over the world in tractors and other industrial applications as well as a few other marine conversions. Beta tries to use as many Kubota generic parts as they can to make the engine cheaper to maintain. The boat I had before this one had a Westerbeake 4-107 and that also was a great engine. It did a great job pushing a heavy wood ketch into wind and waves because the boat sure was not SAILING upwind in any hurry

All that said, this does not mean it makes any sense to get rid of the A4 in an Alberg 35. The finances are very much against you and the A4 is better supported now than at any time in history. The one reason IMHO to switch to diesel is if you are headed offshore. You just cannot beat the range advantage of diesel. You will likely go literally twice as far with the same tank. Also note that the Alberg 35 is at the upper end of the size of boat the A4 is good for. Some A4s got put in boats 38-40 feet long and that is usually too much boat for that engine in any weather.

[67c&ccorv]

How about a GM 4-71 guys?

[ArtJ]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...wvNlvpjKm8buGQ

[Dave Neptune]

Another trouble is that in the last 15 years there have been many new "rules" and developments with diesel engines. These changes are both techno and mechanical and both are being rapidly developed. This has put a big strain on the parts systems for many manufacturers. Yes a diesel is a "stinker" but develop far more power per gallon of fuel and diesels must be very robust in construction just to run for a bit!! They will wear and last just as well as there maintenance. The A-4 on the other hand is built just a robust for it's power and there were only two basic changes in it's many years of production. This has lead to many old parts being available and with places like MMI and Indigo it is still a very good engine! It is also made with a very tough and wear resistant "hi-nickel" cast iron which is very long lived even for us RWC guys.

I'm on Volador's A-4's 44th year of operation with only an exhaust valve that was not from the factory as far as the block is concerned. The valve I replaced it with came out of a Universal package too.

Yes diesel fuel is a safer fuel however it does require far more maintenance even than our E-fuels of today.

Combustable fire hazard is indeed higher with "gas" however even on a diesel boat with a gas powered dingy, motor or gas for same is even more dangerous than a good fuel system on a gas powered boat.

Dave Neptune

[joe_db]

The diesel engine my boat would have come with as an option in 1973 is *totally unsupported* now.

[67c&ccorv]

Now here is a gas engine I wouldn't mind repowering with...made in Detroit!



www.youtube.com/embed/Xq3x_noQ-bk

[marthur]

Yes diesel fuel is a safer fuel

I have reached the point where I want to study the numbers on this. There are a couple of things that are bothering me.

I just can't get away from the fact I hear of very few gasoline boat explosions. Here in the great lakes we several million boats. The vast majority are gas powered. Many of these boats are in-boards and are also poorly maintained, but boat explosions are very rare. If gas is that dangerous, where are all the accidents?

Propane and gasoline end up on a lot (maybe even the majority) of the diesel boats I have seen (think dinghy, grill, heater and cooking).

Fuel related fires on boats also happen at a higher rate on diesels, according to the coast guard statistics I looked at a few years ago.

Not to say gas isn't dangerous, I just have to wonder how much MORE dangerous it is. Is the difference big enough to be significant?

[joe_db]

Gas and gasoline are dangerous. Most people have learned how to handle them OR some just rely on blind luck.

[ArtJ]

Heard of a recent fire on a sailboat in which a local father and son
were doing some electrical wiring in the bilge which resulted in
both being hospitalized for extensive burns. The boat burned to the
waterline and was a total loss. (Possibly they had the power live
when wiring and fumes in bilge)

[ndutton]

The big problem with gasoline (and propane) on boats is vapor pressure at normal temperatures and the fact that the vapor is both heavier than air and with the right concentration of oxygen, explosive. Diesel does not have the vapor issue nor is it explosive, more like a smoldering fuel. That's why many diesel owners don't care if their boat interior stinks. It's disgusting but not dangerous.

The heavier than air issue is problematic for boats because our hulls are essentially sealed bowls. Once the vapors are present they will accumulate down low just waiting for an ignition source. Also, the vapor concentration six feet above the bilge where our noses are is much less than in the bilge so often times we can't smell it.

The rarity of reported explosions is due in part to careful design. It's precisely why our starters, alternators, distributors, battery switches, blowers, electric fuel pumps and any electrical device in either the engine or fuel tank spaces are required to be ignition proof. Imagine what would happen if they weren't. YIKES!

[joe_db]

Always good for a laugh: A Cabo Rico owner spends half an hour explaining why he would NEVER have a gasoline engine on his boat and then digs a clorox bottle full of gasoline out of the engine room to fill the dinghy engine
Later on he lights his propane stove to make coffee for us.......................