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Old 07-11-2012, 09:41 AM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is online now
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Red face A lesson (re)learned.

Just before the 4th I was getting the Volador ready for a possible night trip to Catalina and when checking lights I found my "steaming" light to be out. As I could not get up the mast myself I checked the connections I could and played with the switch. I got nowhere and after spraying wiggling and cleaning still no light. Well as my trip to Georgia's Hartwell Lake approached it wound up that I was not going to make it to Catalina. When I returned to the boat yesterday one of my dockmates said that I had left my "steaming light" on. I opened the boat and the house bank (a pair of 5 year old 6V golf carts) were way dead. They were so dead that I had a bit of trouble getting enough voltage in the batteries so as not to trip my "automotive" plain old battery chargers overload.
Lesson~~"The hurrier I go the farther behind I get" (one of my my grandfathers sayings)~~. In all the fussing around I left the switch in the on position and eventually the voltage got through after I left, not sure why though~Neil? The boat sat for 10 days and my dockmate said that the lite was on a "couple" of days ago, so the juice didn't flow for a few days after leaving and once flowing did a nice job of COMPLETELY draining my house bank~ouch.
This is sort of like trouble shooting the ignition and getting nowhere and leaving the switch on~I should and do know better butt~~~.

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Old 07-11-2012, 10:10 AM
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No specific help here Dave but you'll find the problem is a loose or otherwise compromised connection. It's making contact sometimes and not others. Boat motion , temperature or atmospheric conditions could make the difference in working or not.

You have two difficulties in tracing it down. The first is it could be anywhere from the battery to the light bulb. A methodical approach is best.

The second is more troublesome. You can't trace to a problem if it's working and the intermittent nature of this is the issue. For logical troubleshooting you need it in a failed state. If it's working you'll need to inspect the entire circuit from start to finish.

Don't be bashful about calling for reinforcement. I'm available.

I hope once the offending connection is found it's the only one.
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Old 07-11-2012, 10:39 AM
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Don't forget to suspect the ground.
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Old 07-11-2012, 10:49 AM
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"Helpful Hints?"

Dave,
Since I am getting older and more forgetful by the day, I made a short check list of "musts" before leaving the boat. It is laminated in plastic and sits on my chart table. The 4 items are, close the hatch, intake water off, batteries off and fuel off. Just looking at it has saved me from forgetting one of the above on several occasions. One last tip, If you should need someone to go up the mast to fix the steaming light, I know a guy in San Pedro that is really good at that sort of thing.
Tom
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Old 07-11-2012, 10:56 AM
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My steaming light was always going out. Banging on the mast would usually fix it. I eventually put dielectric grease in the fitting and it seems to be much better now. I suspect something like that in your case.
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  #6   IP: 71.118.13.238
Old 07-11-2012, 11:47 AM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is online now
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Talking Lesson learned

Thanx for the hint's however I was posting the "lesson" of making sure what you are trouble shooting is done!

I did just get done re-doing all of my grounds with new wiring and connections in May. It did quicken the starters spin and brightened up the cabin lights as well. The positive side is next.

I have a trip up the stick planned to replace the anchor lite and install another windicator. The help comes from a fellow A-4 owner whose engine I got running and a couple of other guys who share this sort of thing. We've hauled each other up many times and it is good to have readily availble compitent help. An osprey removed my last one the day after it was replaced. It had set up shop using my mast head as his "chomping block"~messy. It has since disappeared.

I suspect and suspected the switch as it was a bit stiff from lack of use. I did spray with WD-40 and did not crawl into the laz. to check with a meter~just l to lazy that day.

Tom, I never leave my boat without leaving the house batteries on to keep the bilge pump activated, In the past I have wired the BP directly to the batteries so it was always "hot" just incase. Now I leave it tied to the main power and leave the "house set" on. My cockpit drains to thru-hulls and I want the pump live just incase, all other thru-hulls are closed. I store my ignition key on the water valve for the engine as a reminder. I also do not do any battery charging (unless something is left on) during the cruising season. I do charge a couple of times during the winter when they drop a bit. I do tend to exercise my "house" batteries and when they won't turn the engine over when I do my monthly spin and spritz of WD-40 into the cylinders I get the charger out of the dock box. My batteries usually go for 5~6 years operating in this manner and they do get completely drained over their lifetimes more than once!

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Old 07-11-2012, 11:54 AM
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Dave...why don't you wire the bilge pump switch to the batteries again?

I even have a hot bypass for mine on my fancy panel..it lights up to indicate if the pump is running, and its breaker is wired directly to the battery, but the rest of the panel goes thru the main battery switch. I would always be killing my batteries if I forgot to turn off my main switch.

I replaced all my mast wiring and fittings a couple years ago, and wouldn't you know it, the darn steaming light wouldn't work when I came motoring into Oxford at 1:30 in the morning. But after that trip, I told my wife, I'd take the ticket if the DNR or Coasties stopped me at that time of night..I was just glad to have made it.
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Old 07-11-2012, 12:07 PM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is online now
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Thumbs up Good point

Shawn, at least when hooked to the power panel I can switch to the start battery to get the pump going if need be. I do have my VHF wired in as you suggested with a 3 way switch, fusses and connected directly to both batteries. Now everything else including the bilge pump is on the power pannel.

Dave Neptune
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Old 07-11-2012, 12:57 PM
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Another suggestion, if you're going "up the stick"anyway... replace those bulbs with LEDs. They're a bit precious but at 0.06 amps, you can burn them a long time without recharging the batteries.
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Old 07-11-2012, 01:16 PM
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toddster, I left my steaming light as incandescant. It will only be on with the engine running, so the battery is always under a charge condition anyway. Those 180° festoon bulbs are $$$$$ too.

However, I agree with it in almost all other cases. The only one I haven't found a suitable replacement for is the halogen deck light...the LED's just down seem to "penetrate the night" and light up the deck as well as a good old amp sucking halogen bulb. Those are the only two non-LED bulbs on my boat (as soon as I get off my butt and finish replacing the stern running light, but I have the stuff to do it.)
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Old 07-11-2012, 02:28 PM
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Two other advantages to an LED: 1. Not having to climb the mast to find out whether the bulb is burned out or not. 2. Maybe something was wrong with my boat but ALL of the plastic lenses over the incandescent bulbs were partially melted and some leaked water because of this.

I sprang for some pretty expensive LED spreader light assemblies, but they have yet to be tested, since the mast is not yet up. They certainly are bright in the shop!

Sorry for getting off-topic again.
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Old 07-11-2012, 04:37 PM
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Over the last three years I've replaced almost all of the incandescents on my boat with LEDs from here:
http://www.ledlight.com/

Recently, in looking for a replacement for a burned-out incandescent spreader light, I discovered that the bulb is actually a sealed unit originally designed (or at least used) for tractor headlights.

http://www.perko.com/catalog/categor...es/product/50/

As best as I can tell there is no LED fixture made that includes the sealed assembly, so these with their anachronistic-sounding 35 watt draw (and the windex illuminator at the very top of the mast) will remain incandescent on my rig as well.
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Old 07-11-2012, 08:20 PM
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"Speaking of bilge pumps"

What started out as a thread on lighting has raised the question in my mind about how others have their electric bilge pumps connected. Mine, like Shawn's, is fused and connected directly to the house batteries ahead of the battery select switch. Any comments?
Tom
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Old 07-11-2012, 09:45 PM
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Hi Dave

IF you have one of those West Marine lighted rocker panel switches they
are prone to fail,possibly could fail on. If this is the case, I have
a part# and mfr for replacements for around $3 per rocker switch.
Best Regards

Art
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Old 07-11-2012, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thatch View Post
What started out as a thread on lighting has raised the question in my mind about how others have their electric bilge pumps connected. Mine, like Shawn's, is fused and connected directly to the house batteries ahead of the battery select switch. Any comments?
Tom
My bilge pump is wired and fused directly to a house battery and to a Auto/Manual switch. When sailing the switch is on auto. When away from the boat it's in the off position. My boat doesn't leak and it's checked most everyday.
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Old 07-11-2012, 10:00 PM
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Poll please?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thatch View Post
What started out as a thread on lighting has raised the question in my mind about how others have their electric bilge pumps connected. Mine, like Shawn's, is fused and connected directly to the house batteries ahead of the battery select switch. Any comments?
Fused and wired direct to the house batts...
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Old 07-11-2012, 11:09 PM
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Well, as long as we're hijacking the thread...

I just finished re-wiring my whole boat and I ended up connecting the bilge pump, through a little rule fused switch panel, to the house-battery terminal of the battery switch. So it's hard-wired to "Bank 2" but in need could be powered by "ALL."



Also, more relevant to the original topic, I built the new main electrical panels on hinges at the nav station. No more crawling into the sail locker for this man! But I guess I'll put those pics in my own thread.

Last edited by toddster; 07-11-2012 at 11:12 PM.
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Old 07-12-2012, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenders View Post
Over the last three years I've replaced almost all of the incandescents on my boat with LEDs from here:
http://www.ledlight.com/

Recently, in looking for a replacement for a burned-out incandescent spreader light, I discovered that the bulb is actually a sealed unit originally designed (or at least used) for tractor headlights.

http://www.perko.com/catalog/categor...es/product/50/

As best as I can tell there is no LED fixture made that includes the sealed assembly, so these with their anachronistic-sounding 35 watt draw (and the windex illuminator at the very top of the mast) will remain incandescent on my rig as well.
tenders, I used to have the same spreader lights. I think I actually saw an exact replacement sealed bulb at my local Lowe's the other day (but I didn't actually check details, they sure looked the same!)...but I long ago ditched those lights & added the Aquasignal combo fixture.

You can probably find an LED light for the masthead windex light..it only needs to be bright enough to light up the little reflectors on the windex..those Davis windex lights are small edison style bases if I recall...like maybe the E5 base, which looks close.

I like that site you posted...Just to provide another alternative, I picked up most of mine at www.superbrightleds.com
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"Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109
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Last edited by sastanley; 07-12-2012 at 09:11 AM.
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:18 AM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is online now
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Lightbulb Light

I do leave my "house set" on when I leave as I have the BP hooked to the power panel. As I stated I like the idea of being able to switch it on by going to the other bank if the house goes dead. There is a problem of something being left on however I rarely have an issue and it does exercise the batteries which I think is good. I drive past the marina when commuting to & from work so I tend to check on her at least a few times a week.
I will look into an LED masthead for anchor but still don't like the "lite" they produce. I just got a special reflector for my "Maglite" to use with LED bulbs. It is amazing how much differance the rreflector made in the visibility within the lighted field~truly a breakthrough. The reflectors has an "orange-peel" appearance and difuses the light much better.
A few years ago I converted all of my interior lites to halogen and this brightened the cabin and reduced the draw of the incadescent bulbs by around 40%. It took a bit of looking around for the bulbs and was worth the effort. I still don't like LED for interior lighting however the technology is improving fast and I may convert in the forseeable future.

Dave Neptune
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:22 AM
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Lightbulb

Dave,

The key to LEDs is the blu-ish look comes from lights producing 6500K color..

When bulb shopping, they often call this cool white or super white...the 'warm white' LED bulbs (3000K) are the color we are used to seeing from glowing tungsten.

I was able to find warm white festoons & BA15s for the interior, but I'll admit several years ago, I couldn't find a 360° BA9s warm white for my anchor, so it is the bluish light (although they are readily available now)..It is easy to pick me out in a mooring field though..
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:49 PM
tenders tenders is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sastanley View Post
tenders, I used to have the same spreader lights. I think I actually saw an exact replacement sealed bulb at my local Lowe's the other day (but I didn't actually check details, they sure looked the same!)...but I long ago ditched those lights & added the Aquasignal combo fixture.

You can probably find an LED light for the masthead windex light..it only needs to be bright enough to light up the little reflectors on the windex..those Davis windex lights are small edison style bases if I recall...like maybe the E5 base, which looks close.

I like that site you posted...Just to provide another alternative, I picked up most of mine at www.superbrightleds.com
Yes, replacement incandescent bulbs of that size are readily available online, and probably other places...but I never thought to look for them a Lowe's, which I don't usually think of for 12V stuff.

Given the low frequency with which I access the very top of my mast, untill it blows out or the mast comes down for maintenance I'm not particularly concerned about the current draw of the windex light! But it looks as though that bulb is a GE #1447, an E10 base substitutable with this at $1.99:
http://www.ledlight.com/e10-screw-ba...led-light.aspx

Superbrightleds.com does not seem to have 12V bulbs with E10 bases.

Last edited by tenders; 07-12-2012 at 10:53 PM.
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Old 07-13-2012, 09:05 AM
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tenders...no guarantee on those lights..they may have been stock for one of their riding mowers, or it may have been a 120v light..I didn't bother to read the package...it was one of those, 'Hey! those look just like the old spreader lights..wonder if they are the same...oh my, look at this shiny new grill!!'

BTW - I'll check my box o' boat parts..I may still have those spreader lights since I rarely throw away anything boat related..if I do, I'll check the bulbs and let you know.
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"Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109
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http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic3231_6.gif
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