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  #1   IP: 65.30.146.19
Old 05-12-2013, 09:36 PM
sproption sproption is offline
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HELP...leaking Carb. after rebuild.

Hello All,

I launch on Tuesday and find myself with a frustrating situation.

My carberator, that I just rebuilt, is leaking slowly, into my bilge.

I have soak pads from West Marine cleaning it all up....but...this is unacceptable and I am going to have to pull the whole thing apart...again and rebuild...again.

What gives?

1. I purchased two rebuild kits...one had a sping thingy in it and the other did not. I did not build the sping thingy into this one...Mistake????? The spring thingy that I reference apparently is supposed to be at the base of the float, above the needle... correct? I could not figure out how to mount/install it.

2. The diagrams and explanations of the Moyer Marine Rebuild kit are so unclear and ambiguous, I (a teacher, not an auto mechanic) cannot figure it out. The photos of the carb. might as well not be there at all. Call it professional bias.


Does any one have photos or clearer diagrams?

Please help...

I dont want to blow up!

Happy Mothers Day
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  #2   IP: 71.200.119.246
Old 05-12-2013, 10:26 PM
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Hymodyne Hymodyne is offline
 
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pictures would help

If you can get a look at a parts list or diagram, the proper term for the item you did not install would be helpful as well. If you don't have a fuel cut off between your fuel tank and the engine compartment, I'd invest in one, at least that way you can stem the flow of fuel into your bilge while you get things figured out.

At the very least search old threads here for discussions (and pictures) of the carb. Most likely you will see a picture of the carb parts in question and be able to re-rebuild your carb-right this time.

James
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  #3   IP: 96.229.18.9
Old 05-12-2013, 10:31 PM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is offline
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Lightbulb It's doable

sproption, I agree on some of the digrams but they are designed for those with the necessary skill and a basic understanding. Now with that being said perhaps you can tell us where it is leaking. Is it leaking constantly out of the throat or out of the sides where the halves come together.
Also let us know what type of fuel pump you are using IE electric or manual.
Now to be of much assistance we need to understand the part/s that are causing your carb issues.
Did you have problems screwing the halves together due to the venturi?
Looked at one step at a time itreally is doable with a little advise covering the assembly.
My first thought is that the needle and seat are not correct. This can be caused also by tweaking the floats during assembly and/or just leaving the needle out.
Did you use any CARB or BRAKE cleaning spray?

Dave Neptune
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Old 05-13-2013, 12:35 AM
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Sproption,

The Moyer A4 manual has pretty clear instructions about taking the carb apart for cleaning etc. I'm not sure I read the instructions that came with the rebuild kit.
That said, I think it was the first time I cleaned/rebuilt the carb I mistakenly put the float needle in with the pointy side pointing the wrong way. I seem to remember an ensuing flood of gas in my carb. Luckily for me another A4 owner at our club helped me overcome this blunder.
I also don't remember there being a spring involved with the float valve assembly as the float itself does the work of pushing the needle up into the valve to stem or open the flow of fuel; the pointy side of the needle "mates" with the opening, or not if you have it installed upside down (as I had done).
<Titter, titter. He said "mate.">
Question: does the period go inside the quotes? or ...

There really should be a shut off valve (sometimes called a petcock <He said "cock". >) in your fuel system for just this reason. Any fuel leak, whether a line, carburetor (note correct spelling for extra credit) or from anywhere is a potential hazard. This is also the reason I always close the fuel petcock on my boat when I leave it.

Cheers.
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Old 05-13-2013, 06:04 AM
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Sproption,

I've been taking a series of carbs apart and pitting them back together for two weeks now! I feel your pain.

The spring you refer to - do you mean a small, crooked wire thing? That is used to hold the needle at the base of the float. If your float needle isn't in place, there is nothing to stop the in flow of fuel into the carb.

The only other spring is for the idle needle and that wouldn't cause this problem.
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Old 05-13-2013, 07:01 AM
sproption sproption is offline
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Gentlemen...thank you...you are correct.

Thanks to all you guys...

Ironically, my description of the problem sucks. Thanks for pointing that out. Yes, the above mentioned "spring thingy" IS the wire apparatus. The period goes inside the quotes.

1. My carb is the zenith 68. New...purchased about 2 years ago. I have had very mild leaking since install.

2. I removed, rebuilt it...while disassembled, it was VERY clean inside...no varnish or any form of dirt accumulation. The needle is set correctly.

3. I have a manual pump...original.

4. The leak seams to be near or above the choke valve and dripping down and back along the carb and or the engine compartment floor. I put down oil wrags to absorb on my absence. I do not think that leak is in between the two halves.

5. I have manual fuel shut off...I shut that off each time I am done with the boat...

6. I have a Racor fuel filter inline...and a mircro filter in between the fuel pump and carb.

I purchased the video by Moyer Marine on Carb problems. I also read up on some threads. Don Moyer contends in one thread that the wire thing (spring thingy) is not required. In fact, upon looking an exploded parts diagram of the carb. there is no such wire. Also...I may not have the gasket needed in between the flame arrestor and Carb. If that is the case, would there be a persistent leak issue??? I would think that the leak would be for a short time, then dry up. I will investigate.

What makes this such a time consuming PIA is I am working in a space the size of a small shoe box to install or uninstall the carb. from the engine block. An hour to take off and an hour to put back on.

Thanks to all you guys for replying...please, please, please let me know what you think.

Sproption.

Last edited by sproption; 05-13-2013 at 07:08 AM. Reason: Forgot some points.
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Old 05-13-2013, 08:24 AM
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marthur marthur is offline
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This may or may not be helpful, but here is a little more info on the zenith seires 68 carb. It is a big picture so you can print it out.

If it is leaking above the choke shaft, look at the seal between the carb top and bottom halves.
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Old 05-13-2013, 08:48 AM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is offline
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Exclamation Bingo

If your carb is leaking on the inside it is the needle and/or seat. You will need to spit the carb again. Once apart remove the float and confirm the needle is indeed in place. Once out look inside the BRASS seat and you should see a small orifice and it should look good NO NICKS!!! If it is not shinny get a dowel or my prefered tool a wooden chopstick and sharpen the end to about the same POINT as the needle and have a bit of polishing or rubbing compound at the ready. Now wet the stick of choice and dip the tip in the compound so a little bit is on the tip and carefully hold it against the seats orifice and spin a bit BY HAND to polish the seat! Now cleann out the residue of polish with the SPRAY CLEANER and be sure that the large cavity that the fuel feeds into behind the N&S is also blown clean with air!
Now reinstall the seat with gasket and the needle so you can check the float level. Setting the floats is the part that needs special attention as the float level is how the carb works! Note the floats once the HEIGHT is set should be paralell to the body when held upside-down so the float is against the needle and it is in the orifice!
Get back once you have the carb split if you need any assistance in adjusting the floats~CAUTION don't just bend and twist at random use tow small needle nose pliers and onle twist the taps not the float until the height and paralell are achieved. Setting these carbs a bit HIGH or on the pluss side seems to me to be advantages on the A-4.

Dave NEptune
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Old 05-13-2013, 08:59 AM
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joe_db joe_db is offline
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There really are only two ways for a carb to leak.
1 - the halves did not mate, the gasket is bad, or the fuel inlet fitting is bad and gas seeps out. This is a basic assembly issue.
2 - The float valve is not seating. This can happen at asembly or any time thereafter. If you take the flame arrester off, you would see gas dripping from inside. When I put my carb together I blow in the fuel inlet and seat the needle valve by hand and make sure it stops the airflow Someone on here with more hot-rod experience can likely tell you about setting the float valve height.
3 - OK I lied, there are 3. You could have a LOT of extra fuel pressure that just overpowers the system. IIRC the carb is designed for about 2-4 PSI.
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Old 05-13-2013, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sproption View Post
2. The diagrams and explanations of the Moyer Marine Rebuild kit are so unclear and ambiguous, I (a teacher, not an auto mechanic) cannot figure it out. The photos of the carb. might as well not be there at all. Call it professional bias.
I'm thinking you're a prime candidate for the video tutorials offered on this site.

http://www.moyermarine.com/cgi-bin/s...rebuilder.html

For $12 you'll have step by step video instructions...
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Old 05-13-2013, 12:30 PM
sproption sproption is offline
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Narrowing this down...thanks to all you guys!

Gentlemen,

I consulted with a guy who repairs gas engines for others. He is pretty much in line with all of you.

roadnsky...bought it and watched it. Thanks...

joedb...my guy said the same thing...test the seating of the needle by blowing inside (no gas, of course...) and then turn it upside down...if air does not pass, it is seated and works appropriately.

marthur...I have that diagram and thanks for your tip (maybe we will see each other on the other side of L. Michigan...for me, anyway.)

Dave Neptune...excellent thanks!

All of your leads are excellent because now I have a detailed case...

One difference...my guy says the little wire thing (previously known as the spingy thingy) IS required to help set the needle relative to the float. No one here has mentioned that piece of hardware????[/COLOR]Any reasons why???

Attached should be a photo of the parts kit for a carb. the little wire thing NOT in the exploded parts diagram is immediately below the needle in the photo below. What is that called?

Is it vital to this reconstruction? How does that connect?? My guy (non A-4 guy) who fixes small engines says yes.

Thoughts?
Attached Images
 

Last edited by sproption; 05-13-2013 at 12:36 PM. Reason: smiley face wrong
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  #12   IP: 71.118.13.238
Old 05-13-2013, 01:29 PM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is offline
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Lightbulb Clip or spring

It's more of a retaining clip than a spring. The clip pulls down on the needle when the float drops, I havent seen this on many of the A-4 series 68's that I have done. Some kit manufacturers use this type and either one is good.

There are also spring loaded needles but the spring rides inside the needle or around it inside the seat, this style is for maintaining fuel levels with higher preassure apps and stuff that gets bounced around a bit more.

Dave Neptune
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  #13   IP: 199.168.148.136
Old 05-13-2013, 01:31 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
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Carb needle valves and seats are sometimes not interchangable between manufactures. Did you replace them as a pair?
My philosophy as far as the little wire guide that holds the needle: If I take a carb apart that had a working needle jet with the guide in it I include the guide in the rebuild.

TRUE GRIT

Edit: Go with what Dave N. says in the post above.

Last edited by JOHN COOKSON; 05-13-2013 at 01:38 PM.
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Old 05-13-2013, 06:29 PM
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I don't know when the retaining clip on the float needle came into common use, but I know that they were fairly uncommon when the A-4 was designed. Most of the carb kits I have handled have had a clip, but many of the old carbs I have opened did not have one installed. This is also true on the older outboard motors I have worked on.

At any rate, as long as the needle is in the hole I don't think that the clip or lack thereof should not cause a leak. One of the functions of the clip is to pull the needle OUT of the hole to allow gas in. If that is the source of the leak, the needle and seat need to be examined to make sure they are clean, in good condition and a match.
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