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Old 08-22-2020, 11:34 PM
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Basket Case for Sale

Aloha All,

I was recently was gifted a CAL 2-25 with an Atomic inboard in it. Today I got to survey the boat and I have decided to remove the engine and go with mounting an outboard for a kicker.
My question is what is the value of an engine on the open market that has sat for four years and not been winterized and the exhaust pipe has rusted off? I didn't go into to deep of the forensics on it but it doesn't look good. How can somebody just neglect a boat like this IDK. The boat can be brought back but bringing the boat and engine is just too much.
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Last edited by ric sheridan; 08-29-2020 at 03:12 AM.
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Old 08-23-2020, 01:17 AM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
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I believe the engine is in Hawaii? Shipping it to the mainland would cost more than the engine is worth. Probably the same for shipping it to another island. Especially since no one knows its true condition. Your market is limited.
Since the engine was free put it up for sale for $1.00. Maybe someone will takeout off your hands. If not it might make a good flower planter. Or art.

Or:
Make a reasonable effort to get it running. I'd start with a compression test and a block & manifold pressure test. If these tests look good you will be in business. All you will need to do is get spark and fuel to the cylinders and you will have running engine. This is all easy stuff to do. The forum will help you along the way. Many times I've heard about folks bringing an engine that has been under water back to life. The A4 is one tough engine.

ex TRUE GRIT

Fair warning: You don't just buy a boat (or in your case have one given to you). It's more like you get married to a boat. Are you ready?
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Old 08-23-2020, 01:37 AM
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Yeah I am ready. The boat yeah. The engine no. I don't want the problem child. I will post it up on the local sailing facebook page and see if someone wants it. But with all the high price rebuild engines here on Moyer's site I thought the core would have value. Maybe wait another 15 years and it will be a collectors item.
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Old 08-23-2020, 01:55 AM
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In my poking around the internet I found this website. It has a lot of the original documents for Atomics linked to it that are still active. I don't know if you guys know about ti or not so I thought I would throw it up anyway.

https://everythingaboutboats.org/atomic-4/

Also what if I just parted the thing out and canabolized it piece by piece like I see some guys doing. Is it worth more for parts than as an anchor?
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Old 08-23-2020, 10:11 AM
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Ric-
There is another A4 owner and he's stationed in Kaneohe as well...

SubtoSail
HERE is a thread about his boat. Might want to give it a read.
His story may ring familiar... He too was ready to give up on the engine.

You could try PM'ing him and he might be interested.
Or, he might be a willing partner to help you out.
I have his phone number but without his permission, I'm reluctant to give it out.
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Last edited by roadnsky; 08-23-2020 at 06:44 PM.
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Old 08-24-2020, 07:19 PM
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Jerry,

Thanks for the shout out!

Ric, I suspect there are more than a few A4 owners on Oahu lurking here. I might be the least helpful, but I know how encouraging a short amount of time with someone else can be. I also have the Moyer manual, if yours didn't come with one.

-Joe
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Old 08-25-2020, 07:47 AM
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I gotta post a picture of this thing so you guys can see what I am up against. It is scary. I got an expert going to come give a diagnosis on if it is worthy of the effort or not.
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Old 08-25-2020, 07:53 AM
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I wish I had this guy's problems. I can solve this kind of problem. Rusted head and valves and rusted off exhaust pipes and clogged everything problems might be a little much at this point of my experience level with the beastie.
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Old 08-25-2020, 07:23 PM
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Ric, don't trust any 'experts'. I recommend a wait and see approach. I thought mine was beyond resurrecting, and it is still running 11 years later. I simply recommend you exercise patience before making drastic decisions!!
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Old 08-25-2020, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sastanley View Post
Ric, don't trust any 'experts'. I recommend a wait and see approach. I thought mine was beyond resurrecting, and it is still running 11 years later. I simply recommend you exercise patience before making drastic decisions!!
AND... if it were me...
I'd take Joe (SubtoSail) up on his offer!
He knows more than he's lettin' on.
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Old 08-25-2020, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadnsky View Post
AND... if it were me...
I'd take Joe (SubtoSail) up on his offer!
He knows more than he's lettin' on.
I do not know Joe, so I did not want to speak for him.
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Old 08-26-2020, 10:56 AM
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Hey Shawn-
I didn't mean to insinuate you were dissing Joe.
I guess my post kinda sounded that way.

What I meant was that Joe could be a valuable partner to help Ric.
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Old 08-27-2020, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadnsky View Post
Hey Shawn-
I didn't mean to insinuate you were dissing Joe.
I guess my post kinda sounded that way.

What I meant was that Joe could be a valuable partner to help Ric.
Jerry, all good, brother!!! I agree. The population of A-4 smarties is probably a bit limited in Hawaii due to geographic 'challenges' for on-site help, but maybe Joe can help Ric out.
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Old 08-28-2020, 10:58 PM
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I got a guy

I got a guy. he looked at it an said I have compression. He said he has to send his skinny guy to do the work. He said $500 to get it going. He said. See attachment.
Also the motor mount looks like it is half eaten away. Hard to see in this pic but maybe enough meat on it to save. Maybe clean off and naval jelly it?
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Last edited by ric sheridan; 08-28-2020 at 11:05 PM.
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Old 08-29-2020, 05:21 PM
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Salvageable

Ric,

Thanks for the pictures, they help. Iíll give more detail below, but I think your engine is in acceptable shape and worth restoring. That is pending some investigation of the cooling system.

If you have compression, that is a good thing.

Looking at the pictures, it looks like there are some missing pieces. The flywheel cover and alternator cover appear to not be on. I do not know what the results of operating that way would be. I suspect the only risk is debris getting into the gears and causing damage, or a hand getting in causing pain.

The exhaust pipe is broken. And the exhaust flange gasket is not installed through both bolts. Is the exhaust flange bolted to the manifold? I think that hose connecting to the front of the T fitting in the exhaust line is the cooling water. My arrangement is different, but I think yours is fine.

Iím trying to make heads or tails of the cooling hoses and Iím struggling. Is it raw water or fresh water cooling? It looks like the inlet to the water pump (outboard hose fitting) is coming from the bottom of that 3 way something suspended at the front. Is that a strainer, or an external thermostat, or maybe something else? From the outlet of the water pump it looks like itís going to the thermostat on the front of the engine. There should be a T fitting before that going into the side of the block. I canít tell if there is anything on the outlet of the thermostat or if itís plugged. Where is the hose on the top of that strainer(?) going to? The manifold maybe? If this is a freshwater system hopefully someone else can give a better idea if itís set up correctly, Iím raw water cooled.

From the flywheel end of the engine, under the manifold on the right, above the metal screen flame arrestor is a hose coming out of the block. Where is it going? It appears to angle up and go aft. That may be a PCV system, which I do not have experience with.

Lots of verdigris on the metal fittings and sea water pump. The head looks to be in good shape, at least the nuts look good, much better than mine. The manifold and flame arrestor (so maybe the carb) look red and the rest is blue, so they may have come from elsewhere, not a problem.

My plan? Sort out the cooling path. If it is abnormal it may be because there is a problem with the water jacket. Is there water in the oil? (A milky/mucus green, rising level after turning over? That could be a big problem, I donít know of an easy way to fix that. A pressure test of the cooling system would help identify any issues. Next clean/replace the water pump, replace exhaust hot section, get covers for the flywheel and alternator, check spark and fuel and youíre off to the races.
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Old 08-29-2020, 06:10 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
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ANOTHER $0.02

RIC
Do you know what the compression numbers are?

I would start with two items:
(1) A pressure test of the engine and manifold.
(2) Did the survey you mentioned in post #1 include look at the underwater part of the boat? If not a dive under the boat, by you or someone else, to survey the underwater metals - in particular the shaft, prop and strut. When a boat has been ignored like this one I would be suspicious of damage to the underwater metals if the zincs had not been replaced as needed.

As I mentioned free boats are usually not free.

ex TRUE GRIT
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Old 08-29-2020, 11:27 PM
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Ric,

I am in the process of bring an A4 back to life in kailua, this forum has been a HUGE help. As they mention if you have good compression the rest is straight forward, here and the Moyer videos to get it running,
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Old 08-30-2020, 12:32 PM
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Ric-
The guys have made some good observations and suggestions already.
(John's post #2 pretty much sums it up)

Obviously, it appears you’ll need to:
• Rebuild the exhaust (easy and inexpensive task)
• A once-over of the cooling system
(at least replace hoses and change out coolant)
• Clean the fuel system and replace hoses (loose the squeeze bulb)
• Rebuild or at least clean out the carb
• Change Oil
• Those THRU HULLS should also be looked at carefully (can sink the boat)

Here is the big question...
WHAT WILL THIS BOAT BE FOR YOU?

The answer to that question will decide your “passion” and “commitment” to her
and help you decide how much blood, sweat and boat buck$ you want to invest.

Looking at the pictures, it seems like a lot, but if you’re really interested in bringing her
around, then I don’t think it’s all that bad (considering the corrosive Hawaiian ocean environment)
Make a list, in order of priority and work down. (it’s a boat... you’ll never get to the bottom)

A compression test is your first priority and will help you decide how deep to commit.
We can walk you thru doing the test or maybe Joe or Cub would be willing to come over and help and also give an honest “Live Overview” of what you have.
OR did you say your “Guy” already did one?
If so, get those numbers from him.

On that point...
You could spend the $500 and probably get her running. (how well?)
BUT, you will not get
• Knowledge and confidence in your Auxillary Sail
• KNOW that things are fixed RIGHT
Instead, for the same amount or likely much less, you could do the work with help from everyone here AND gain the knowledge and have the work done right.

Also, for the price of Lunch, you might be able to recruit Joe or Cub to come get you started.

Finally, is the boat currently in the water or on the hard?
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Last edited by roadnsky; 08-30-2020 at 12:38 PM.
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Old 08-30-2020, 12:44 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
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Hi Ric
I want to reply to your PM in the open forum. Hope that is alright.
I don't see anything in the pictures that hasn't been mentioned already. SubtoSail gave an excellent analysis, IMO.

What do the sails look like? New sails are a bit expensive.
I am not trying to throw cold water on your plans.
For most owning a boat is akin to getting married. I want to be sure as possible that you have both eyes wide open as you consider a new relationship. From the look of the engine this boat needs a lot of TLC.

ex TRUE GRIT
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Old 09-03-2020, 02:35 PM
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The boat is worthy. We sailed her from Kaneohe to Haleiwa (40 miles without an engine) Standing rigging is newer. Rigging and sails are good. Just everywhere I look it is the small stuff. The boat was moored to a ball for four years and neglected. Stanchions need to be reseated etc..... But the boat is solid. I bought a new 8 hp yamaha kicker so I can get out of the harbor for the sea trials. But I am not giving up on the Atomic.
The cover is there just not in the picture. The pipe is frozen. A pipe wrench couldn't turn it. Torch is scary next to the gas tank. I will have to drain the old gas and see if he tank can come out making some more room behind the engine. The mechanic couldn't figure out what the extra thing was on the cooling system was either. I will take off thermostat and the pump. ( I have the re build kit) The Mechanic said to retorque the heads just to be sure before the compression test. a little marvel oil and wait. I think my battery even though it says 12 volts is still bad. I think I might be closer than I think.
My question is how do I clean this thing up in place without getting all the crap down into the boat? Any ideas. Vacum while I scrape and brush or do I just let it all go down in the bilge and clean the bilge?

Thanks again you guys. And you too Mr. Moyer.

Last edited by ric sheridan; 09-03-2020 at 02:47 PM.
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Old 09-06-2020, 05:51 PM
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I just got the compression tool and realized I have low compression on all cylinders. I'm going to do an air pressure test to see where the leak is, valves or pistons. I did a make feeler gauge adjustments to the valves so I'm guessing that is where I've lost the compression. Ric, what were the compression numbers?
aloha,
Chris Berard
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Old 09-06-2020, 10:13 PM
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The engine is on the back burner right now. Trying to get ready for the sea trials and inspection from the Harbor Master. Putting in a new battery this week and I am tempted to turn it over without the spark plugs in it. The oil looks brand new and smells great even after sitting for two years.
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Old 09-07-2020, 12:49 AM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ric sheridan View Post
. The oil looks brand new and smells great even after sitting for two years.
Does the oil smell somewhat like wintergreen? MMO has a wintergreen scent.

ex TRUE GRIT

Last edited by JOHN COOKSON; 09-07-2020 at 02:36 AM.
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Old 09-14-2020, 02:40 PM
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Oil looks new and it doesnt smell like anything but oil.
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