Return to the home page...

Go Back   Moyer Marine Atomic 4 Community - Home of the Afourians > Discussion Topics > Troubleshooting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   IP: 98.125.235.29
Old 04-24-2009, 05:04 PM
Tom B's Avatar
Tom B Tom B is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via AIM to Tom B Send a message via Yahoo to Tom B Send a message via Skype™ to Tom B
Cool Head Gasket Replacement

My Atomic 4 is presently a very nice Atomic 2. I suspect either stuck exhaust valves in cylinders 1 & 2 or a blown head gasket between them as there is no compression. I will be taking a shot with some Marvel Mystery Oil to cure the possible sticking valve problem, but suspect the next step of pulling the head will be necessary.

I know that I will be needing new head gaskets. But on review of the overhaul manual noticed that other parts may also need to come off, requiring additional gaskets (the exhaust manifold for example).

For this sort of head gasket replacement, what additional parts are needed.

Thanks.

Tom B
SV Jubilee
C&C 35 MKI
Reply With Quote
  #2   IP: 98.125.235.29
Old 04-24-2009, 08:50 PM
Tom B's Avatar
Tom B Tom B is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via AIM to Tom B Send a message via Yahoo to Tom B Send a message via Skype™ to Tom B
Unhappy Atomic 2 update

Well the Marvel oil was a bust. It sure is amazing though how well she runs on two cylinders.

A little background may be helpful. We bought Jubilee last year at a boyscout auction. We started out looking for a daysailer an ended up with a 35 footer. We got her for a great price (less than 1/2 the survey value) but she is for sure a much bigger hole in the water that we had been planning on. We love her and she is a fine vessel and will serve us well...if I can just get her shipshape.

I used a mechanic to get her running after realizing that I might be over my head...but after what he charged, I am now concerned that I may be getting in over my wallet. I have not worked on engines for about 45 years or so. Although my understanding of the concepts is fine, my confidence level is nil. I also find it hard to justify getting a bunch of expensive specialized tool to use once if they would end up costing more than having someone else do it for me. But I digress...

As I said, we got Jubilee in Tacoma at the auction...She pretty much sat idle for the last 10 years as near as I can tell. She was driven to the Tacoma auction site from Lake Washington (~25 NM). During the delivery she blew a water hose and got so hot the paint was burnt off the engine in many places, including the head. This supports my suspicion that the head may have warped enough under the heat to blow out the gasket or worse.

She ran OK for a while. At least well enough to get her out a few times and bring her from Tacoma to her home port here on Vashon Island...but it may well have been on 2 cylinders. All I can really say is she started and ran...until last month. The she would start, run for about 30 seconds and die. I hired a local mechanic to get her running again. Which he did but in the process we learned of the dead cylinders.

Today I put Marvel Oil in 1 & 2, turned her over a few times, put in a little more, turned her over some more, put in more, then started her up. Lots of smoke for the initial few minutes..but still seemed that 1 & 2 were not in play (I confirmed this by taking off the plug wire on each with no perceptible change in engine sound). There is a clicking sound in the engine that seems to be near #2 cylinder.

To add insult to injury, I also noticed exhaust smoke in the aft bilge coming out from the cockpit lockers. It is not in the engine compartment or in the port locker where the water exhaust stack it where the waste water goes back into the system...but apparently in the bilge area between the aft wall of the engine compartment and where the exhaust pipe goes out to the water recovery stack area in the port locker. I guess will need to climb down into the STBD cockpit locker to get a better look at things tomorrow. (On the C&C 35 MKI the port locker is small to allow for the 1/4 birth but the STBD one is big and deep enough to get into to see under the cockpit).

I am considering taking a shot at pulling the head myself. I have noticed that the engine compartment is getting bigger, the more time I spend in there. But I am concerned that I could end p doing more damage than good if I do it myself. Taking off the carb and exhaust manifold and to pull the head and taking out the studs as described in the manual all makes me very apprehensive.

Any thoughts,cautions or encouragement will be greatly appreciated.

Tom B
SV Jubilee
C&C 35 MKI
Vashon Island WA
Reply With Quote
  #3   IP: 64.203.32.52
Old 04-25-2009, 10:52 AM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is online now
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Grove, Oklahoma
Posts: 5,035
Thanks: 711
Thanked 1,289 Times in 839 Posts
Thumbs up Do it yer'self

Tom, if you had any experience at all AND you know whicic end of a wrench or screwdriver is which, with the info and helpful attitude of those who play on this site---NO PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!! Just go slowly and take pictures to create a disassembly trail for reassembling or posting here for others to evaluate and assist in your adventure!! One good thing is that if you ever have any problems after working on the A-4 you will be able to probably get her running again without much problem and can take the family to dinner or a cruise with the savings. The more you know about your vessel the safer you will be. Suggestion---Go slowly, take pictures, and get one of Don's manuals.

Start soaking the head "studs" with penetrating oil or liquid wrench then have a beer, clean something and go home to let them soak for a day or 3. Get a good socket and start removing the nuts that come off easy. The ones that don't want to come loose soak again! Then get a smaller socket that will fit over the stud and sit on (not over) the nut and give it a couple of smacks with a hammer and try again. At this point do not worry about the studs coming out with the nuts as you can reset them later.

The head will come off without removing the manifold or thermostat although with the manifold out of the way it may be easier to work around.

This isn't rocket-science just go slowly and take pictures and stuff a few old rags around the motor to catch dropped tools and or parts so you don't have to dig them out of the bilge. Also get a good strong magnet on a stick for parts fishing. If you have had any experience at all you can do it. You may create a little curiosity with other home mechanics on the dock so keep some cold ones around and you may extract some valuable experience, information and even some help for a cold one!

FYI- if you get a small flashlight and shine it into the cylinder through the sparkplug hole you can see the edges of the valves, check and see if they are moving. You also can't hardly hurt these motors by overheating them a bit they are amazingly sturdy with a "HI-nickel" block and forged steel crank.

Once you have it back together you can easily look for the exhaust leak. The exhaust is a P I A to get to in some cases but very simple to work on--another dun't worry!

This site will get you through it!!!
Dave Neptune
Reply With Quote
  #4   IP: 68.224.125.99
Old 04-25-2009, 12:08 PM
roadnsky's Avatar
roadnsky roadnsky is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lake Mead, NV
Posts: 3,104
Thanks: 24
Thanked 467 Times in 309 Posts
Tom-
I second the great advice from Dave!
This is a wonderful community with good advice readily offered as well as the top notch support from Moyer Marine.

There is no better feeling than the confidence of learning your iron sail AND knowing that the work is done right.
No one will give your A4 the TLC and attention that you will.

Fill a thermos or ice chest and jump in!
Reply With Quote
  #5   IP: 98.125.235.29
Old 04-25-2009, 03:53 PM
Tom B's Avatar
Tom B Tom B is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via AIM to Tom B Send a message via Yahoo to Tom B Send a message via Skype™ to Tom B
Red face Jumped in....

OK...you guys talked me into it...the part about knowing the engine was probably the part that put me over the top.

I am soaking the bolts after removing the old broken heat exchanger (I already have the aftermarket Moyer heat exchanger to put on when I am done.)

Will there be coolant in the head and should it be drained before I start to disassemble? I am assuming that the lower coolant hose will do this if I lower it below the head level..

Also, is getting the head magnafluxed and milled once it's off essential, or just silly not to since it's off anyway?

thx
Attached Images
 
__________________
Tom B
SV Jubilee
C&C 35 MK I
Vashon Island WA
Reply With Quote
  #6   IP: 64.203.32.52
Old 04-25-2009, 07:06 PM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is online now
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Grove, Oklahoma
Posts: 5,035
Thanks: 711
Thanked 1,289 Times in 839 Posts
Thumbs up Go Tom

Yes drain what you can out.

Have the head checked however if it does not appear to be out of flat IE it is ok don't bother milling! And yes the A-4 does use two gaskets on the head!

If you are planning on taking off the manifold you may have it boiled out unless it is in good condition from using coolant.

You will find out how much the "kiss" rule applies to the A-4!

Good luck David
Reply With Quote
  #7   IP: 24.62.176.187
Old 04-26-2009, 11:21 AM
Dana Mace's Avatar
Dana Mace Dana Mace is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Marblehead Ma
Posts: 54
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
[QUOTE=Tom B;13668]OK...you guys talked me into it...the part about knowing the engine was probably the part that put me over the top.

I am soaking the bolts after removing the old broken heat exchanger (I already have the aftermarket Moyer heat exchanger to put on when I am done.)

Will there be coolant in the head and should it be drained before I start to disassemble? I am assuming that the lower coolant hose will do this if I lower it below the head level..

Also, is getting the head magnafluxed and milled once it's off essential, or just silly not to since it's off anyway?

thx[/QUOTE
I cant believe the room you have
that will save a lot of time.
Good luck
Dana
Reply With Quote
  #8   IP: 64.203.32.52
Old 04-26-2009, 12:27 PM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is online now
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Grove, Oklahoma
Posts: 5,035
Thanks: 711
Thanked 1,289 Times in 839 Posts
Thumbs up Do-it-yerself'

Go Dana!!!!!!!!!!!!
David
Reply With Quote
  #9   IP: 98.125.235.29
Old 04-26-2009, 01:06 PM
Tom B's Avatar
Tom B Tom B is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via AIM to Tom B Send a message via Yahoo to Tom B Send a message via Skype™ to Tom B
Cool

[/QUOTE
I cant believe the room you have
that will save a lot of time.
Good luck
Dana[/QUOTE]

The first time I stuck my head in there it seemed impossibly tight...but the more I get in there the more roomy it seems to be getting. Pulling out the heat exchanger made a significant difference on the port side as well.

Packing to head over the take a shot at pulling the head in a bit. The corrosion on the head bolts and stud ends is significant. So a l;ittle wire brushing is probably in order before applying the socket. The replacement of the studs and re threading them and the head it a bit daunting...but I will just have to take things one step at a time.

I should have new pics later today...wish me luck!
__________________
Tom B
SV Jubilee
C&C 35 MK I
Vashon Island WA
Reply With Quote
  #10   IP: 142.68.122.110
Old 04-26-2009, 04:31 PM
rigspelt's Avatar
rigspelt rigspelt is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,187
Thanks: 0
Thanked 19 Times in 17 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom B View Post
Any thoughts,cautions or encouragement will be greatly appreciated.
After hanging out here this past year since I got my first A4, I'm starting to recognize this as the sign of a good A4 DIYr - a diamond in the rough. I can offer tons of encouragement. My only suggestion at present is keep poking away and bring any questions you may have to this forum. After a while, it starts to make sense.
__________________
1974 C&C 27
Reply With Quote
  #11   IP: 70.22.218.200
Old 04-26-2009, 09:47 PM
Mark S's Avatar
Mark S Mark S is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Marblehead MA
Posts: 421
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Tom,

Don't worry about not having worked on engines in 45 years. The A4 is just like the engines you grew up on -- really simple, and it has four fewer cylinders!

Mark S
Reply With Quote
  #12   IP: 68.55.65.114
Old 04-27-2009, 08:36 AM
P30_889's Avatar
P30_889 P30_889 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Crownsville,MD
Posts: 78
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hope it went well yesterday!

I have to say that after all my initial trepidation on working on the engine, it hasn't been as bad as I thought. I am still muddling my way through after pulling then reinstalling the engine. The first 'major' thing I did was to remove the head from an engine with really bad corrosion. It wasn't as bad as I thought. I broke one stud (machine shop fixed that) but otherwise, very straight forward.
__________________
David H
Pearson 30
Annapolis, MD
Reply With Quote
  #13   IP: 98.125.235.29
Old 04-27-2009, 12:27 PM
Tom B's Avatar
Tom B Tom B is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via AIM to Tom B Send a message via Yahoo to Tom B Send a message via Skype™ to Tom B
Talking Good Head

I got it off...took longer than I has hoped but the head finally came off. The good news is the there was a suck valve exhaust in #1 which, after tapping it down (harder to tap down than expected), seems to be working fine. There was also some evidence of blow by between #1 and #2 even though the gasket was still there...but some light burning in the head and block in the gap.

Most of the head nuts came off, a few with the stud attached. The villain of the drama was the one stud from the thermostat, which has light rust on it and did not want to let the head off. The hero was the shorty slotted screwdriver that was small enough to fit on the back side of the engine and allow for wedging in with the hammer. It took a lot of wiggle and liquid wrench to get the head off...but we got it.

The head looks flat and no visible warp showed when I laid a straight edge on it. The water passages were a little gunky, but not real bad. I am thinking I should get the head boiled out. And since I have to replace the exhaust pipe as well, I should probably pull off the exhaust manifold and get that boiled out as well.

High def photos on my flicker site if anyone wants to take a closer look at the straight edge on the head and other shots.

I am not sure how to proceed with the head studs that are in the block or the ones that came out with the nuts attached...pull all the studs? How? And how do I get the nuts off the other studs that came off with the nuts w/o damaging the studs?

I am planning on using the flushing kit I got from Don after it is resembled to flush out the block and also change out the oil, in case any crap got in it during the process.

Anything else you guys think I should be looking at while I have the head off?
Attached Images
    
__________________
Tom B
SV Jubilee
C&C 35 MK I
Vashon Island WA

Last edited by Tom B; 04-27-2009 at 12:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14   IP: 207.236.189.83
Old 04-27-2009, 03:41 PM
Flagman101's Avatar
Flagman101 Flagman101 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 59
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Look for cracks.
When i did my engine my head had a crack that was not visible until i sandblasted it.
On the thermostat side ou the head. And near the altenator bracket. Airline cracks. But once i pressure tested it, they became very obvious.
It looks like the casting mold was misplaced during pouring and end up with a very thin wall.
__________________
Daniel
1973 C&C30 MK1
Montreal, Canada.
http://bailandoavoiles.blogspot.com/
Reply With Quote
  #15   IP: 64.231.83.142
Old 04-27-2009, 09:09 PM
67c&ccorv's Avatar
67c&ccorv 67c&ccorv is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: London, ON
Posts: 1,559
Thanks: 4
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom B View Post
I am not sure how to proceed with the head studs that are in the block or the ones that came out with the nuts attached...pull all the studs? How? And how do I get the nuts off the other studs that came off with the nuts w/o damaging the studs?

Anything else you guys think I should be looking at while I have the head off?
Use plenty of rust pentrating fluid and gently heat the area of the block around the base of the stud. (Note - I said "gently"!)

If you don't have a stud puller then use the "double nut" method to unscrew the stud using two nuts that you tighten together and then apply a wrench to the bottom of the two to unscrew the stud.

Use a gentle but firm force and try to "feel" the stud as it unscrews out of the block - you don't want to break the thing in the block as that will make your job a nightmare.

Check the condition of the threads once the stud is pulled - I would run a bottoming tap into the holes and a die over the studs if reusing them. Don't forget to use plenty of cutting fluid while dressing them out. If the threads are suspect after this you may have to use one of the many methods to recut new threads - Moyer would the ones to talk to in this case. My preference would be to use new S/S studs and nuts and washers - they are not as expensive as one would think.

YOU will have to decide how far you want to go on this rebuild - just the head? Or do we go all the way? It all depends on how much money and time you have on your hands. It is your decision.

Good luck!
Reply With Quote
  #16   IP: 98.125.242.45
Old 05-17-2009, 09:13 PM
Tom B's Avatar
Tom B Tom B is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via AIM to Tom B Send a message via Yahoo to Tom B Send a message via Skype™ to Tom B
Unhappy Update

I finally got back to the head job. I had to spend some time re fabricating the exhaust as it had to be done and in before I could get the head back on. Today I got the exhaust in and got to the head.

I picked up a spacer set up and a new thermostat from Don to update the thermostat...and since one of the the thermostat studs had come off already I figured the job was 1/2 done already. Well I got a little heavy handed and ended up breaking off the stud. After a few choice words for myself for not bothering to run home for the propane torch, I was able to make a quick run to the local hardware and use the successive drill method to drill out the out stud base and re-tap the head. Then after tweaking the stud a little with my ballpean hammer, I was able to get the head on. So, after assembling everything and getting all the bolts, the thermostat and alternator on I was ready to start torquing.

As I was torquing the first bolt, the stud broke off ... way more cursing. I had rented a torque wrench from the local hardware which turned out to be a very bad mistake. It had a 25-250 ft lb range and I suspect that it has been through a life of rough treatment. I am pretty sure that it was not calibrated and as a result I was applying way too much torque

I pulled the head back off in a jiffy and drilled out using the same method I did for the thermostat stud...

Now I need to order a new stud from Don and will also probably give him a call about whether I should bed the stud in JB weld instead of using the blue locktight as I have for the other studs that came out.

Think I'll buy one now.

Onward....

Tom B
__________________
Tom B
SV Jubilee
C&C 35 MK I
Vashon Island WA

Last edited by Tom B; 05-17-2009 at 09:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #17   IP: 24.19.203.85
Old 05-25-2009, 02:43 PM
Tom B's Avatar
Tom B Tom B is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via AIM to Tom B Send a message via Yahoo to Tom B Send a message via Skype™ to Tom B
Cool DIsappointment and frustration...

Well I have successfully reassembled my engine.I got the replacement stud in and torqued everything down fine. Then got ready to run her up to re-torque the head bolts a few times...but no love.

I try cranking it, but nothing. Has spark. Manually set to TDC and then, since I did not have a timing light handy, I opened up the distributor and rotated it until the points opened, then tightened it down.

Still no love. I little burst of ether seems to indicate that she was trying...but nothing of significance, even with a little fuel poured into the carb inlet...

I guess I will be attacking the fuel system next, but yesterday I was so disappointed I just closed up the engine compartment and left due to fatigue and frustration.

I need to figure out a way to clean out the filter (I think it is an very old Rancor, but it could be a fram) without flooding the bilge with fuel. But I think I can figure that out OK. But I have to admit this is looking like an endless mess...

Well I did say I wanted to get familiar with the engine...though with the hope of having her out by yesterday and a perfect sailing week end here in Puget Sound I am just totally bummed out.
__________________
Tom B
SV Jubilee
C&C 35 MK I
Vashon Island WA
Reply With Quote
  #18   IP: 72.253.219.242
Old 05-25-2009, 03:05 PM
roadnsky's Avatar
roadnsky roadnsky is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lake Mead, NV
Posts: 3,104
Thanks: 24
Thanked 467 Times in 309 Posts
Thumbs up Hold Fast

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom B View Post
Well I did say I wanted to get familiar with the engine...though with the hope of having her out by yesterday and a perfect sailing week end here in Puget Sound I am just totally bummed out.
Tom-
We're feeling your pain. We've all been there!
Some of us more times than others...

Hang in there. There are more great sailing days ahead. Made even better knowing your AUX is in reserve and trustworthy.
These are old machines and it can take time to repair years of neglect.
Plug away. Take some breaks. (Beer helps )
Plug away some more.
Before you know it, sometimes when you least expect it, success.

Honest, the reward is much greater than the frustration!
Reply With Quote
  #19   IP: 142.68.255.123
Old 05-25-2009, 04:39 PM
rigspelt's Avatar
rigspelt rigspelt is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,187
Thanks: 0
Thanked 19 Times in 17 Posts
Yup - time to refocus. If it helps, I'm sitting here feeling the same thing. Today I confirmed that I have to remove a new seacock that I thought was job-done. It appears to be defective. Bummed? You bet - friends' boats are all going back in, and the season is too short around here for this kind of setback.

But - better safe and shipshape in the long run. And after all, it's only a hobby. One's health, family and friends are far more important than a boat that eventually will get fixed up. So, I take a deep breath, refuel with hot supper, and head back to do a little more. Eventually it'll get done.

Update: After I wrote this, I went to the boat, tackled that expensive seacock, got it out without damaging the boat or the seacock, and just need to find a replacement. Feeling much better now. Hope your project takes a better turn too.
__________________
1974 C&C 27

Last edited by rigspelt; 05-25-2009 at 07:42 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #20   IP: 38.102.24.232
Old 05-25-2009, 07:46 PM
Don Moyer's Avatar
Don Moyer Don Moyer is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,811
Thanks: 0
Thanked 183 Times in 124 Posts
Tom,

Assuming that you have enough compression on each cylinder to force past your thumb no matter how hard you press, with fuel lying in the carburetor intake throat, and a good secondary discharge from the coil, my best guess is that your timing isn't set where you think it is. If I were on your boat, I'd go through the number one TDC business again and rig a 12 volt continuity checking light across the primary terminals of the coil to be sure the points are opening precisely at TDC of the first cylinder.

In addition to the words of encouragement from your other fraternity brothers, I would only add that you'll be a far better person when you finally figure out what it is that is currently keeping your engine from springing to life.

Don
Reply With Quote
  #21   IP: 72.89.246.120
Old 05-25-2009, 09:45 PM
tenders tenders is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harlem YC, City Island, NY
Posts: 1,439
Thanks: 46
Thanked 259 Times in 170 Posts
> little burst of ether seems to indicate that she was trying

My advice to you is, leave the ether at home. It will never be the missing link that helps you troubleshoot the real problem. I almost blew myself and my boat partner out of the water with this stuff. Maybe it's fine for automobiles, or with the engine in your garage, where the fumes can dissipate...but in a boat there's nowhere good for them to go.
Reply With Quote
  #22   IP: 98.125.241.49
Old 05-26-2009, 02:48 PM
Tom B's Avatar
Tom B Tom B is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via AIM to Tom B Send a message via Yahoo to Tom B Send a message via Skype™ to Tom B
Regrouping...

OK....I'll take a step back. Yesterday I checked the gas line all the way to the carb...and it was fine. I was going to pull off the carb and rebuild it but could only get one of the mounting bolts off. So, I was contemplating pulling off the entire manifold, just to get at the carb for a rebuild. But from what you said, I think I will take a step back, pick up a timing light and see if that is the problem. Just to be sure, a little gas pured into the carb should allow the engine to start, even if the carb is a bit messed up. If that is the case, then I will check the compression with the thumb test and go get myself a timing light before bothering to tear the engine apart even more.


Also, I know that the firing order is 1-2-4-3 but I want to make sure that I have the rotor rotation correct...clockwise...right?

Thanks for the idea Don and everyone for their support.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Moyer View Post
Tom,

Assuming that you have enough compression on each cylinder to force past your thumb no matter how hard you press, with fuel lying in the carburetor intake throat, and a good secondary discharge from the coil, my best guess is that your timing isn't set where you think it is. If I were on your boat, I'd go through the number one TDC business again and rig a 12 volt continuity checking light across the primary terminals of the coil to be sure the points are opening precisely at TDC of the first cylinder.

In addition to the words of encouragement from your other fraternity brothers, I would only add that you'll be a far better person when you finally figure out what it is that is currently keeping your engine from springing to life.

Don
__________________
Tom B
SV Jubilee
C&C 35 MK I
Vashon Island WA
Reply With Quote
  #23   IP: 98.125.237.47
Old 06-01-2009, 12:09 AM
Tom B's Avatar
Tom B Tom B is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send a message via AIM to Tom B Send a message via Yahoo to Tom B Send a message via Skype™ to Tom B
Talking Success...sort of.

I took Don's advice and yesterday got the timing right and was able to get her to run, but only by pouring gas into the carb. Since I had already checked the fuel flow to the input to the carb and it was fine, I started to pull off the carb. Everything went OK except for the rear bolt holding down the carb...and it was too small for my 1/2 in wrench but too big for my 7/8...and no 15/32 wrenches were to be found. Fortunately a friend with a wide assortment of wrenches came to the rescue with a tight 1/2 that worked an we got it off.

As you can see from the pics below, the inside of the float chamber was all gunked up..and these pictures were taken after it had dried up. I am sure that I could get this old one cleaned up and working. But, since it is an older version with an adjustable main jet, with a needle valve, which I think may be trouble in the long run...I am gonna get a new one from Don and put it in next week end...and maybe even go sailing! Then rebuild the old one and keep it for a back up.

But, of course, only time will tell....

One more thing...When removing the flame arrestor the vent tube from the crankcase that vents into the flame arrestor broke. It's an odd little piece of rubber tubing. Any idea what I should use to replace it?


I'll keep everyone posted...and thx for all the help and encouragement thus far!
Attached Images
   
__________________
Tom B
SV Jubilee
C&C 35 MK I
Vashon Island WA

Last edited by Tom B; 06-01-2009 at 12:46 AM. Reason: arrestor veeent tune broke too...
Reply With Quote
  #24   IP: 68.224.125.99
Old 06-01-2009, 01:33 AM
roadnsky's Avatar
roadnsky roadnsky is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lake Mead, NV
Posts: 3,104
Thanks: 24
Thanked 467 Times in 309 Posts
Tom-
Congrats on making progress!
While you're changing out the carb, why not also put in a PVC Crankcase Vent kit instead of replacing the hose for the flame arrestor? Either from MMI or Indigo.

If not, maybe ask Ken if he'll sell you the hose. They have replacement parts for the Flame Arrestor.
Reply With Quote
  #25   IP: 206.125.176.3
Old 06-01-2009, 12:09 PM
sastanley's Avatar
sastanley sastanley is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Solomons, MD
Posts: 7,016
Thanks: 1,134
Thanked 600 Times in 442 Posts
Tom, I agree with roadnsky. Add the PCV system. It is $80 from Indigo and works well..especially if you are already removing the carb to replace anyway.

Moyer Marine has a kit as well, but I think it comes as part of a larger package, so the price is higher.
__________________
-Shawn
"Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109
"Twice Around" - '77 C-30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold - SOLD! (no longer a two boat owner!!)
http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic3231_6.gif
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
water leaking from the head gasket JarrettF Overhaul 17 09-16-2009 07:38 PM
I guess it must be the head gasket Baltimore Sailor General Maintenance 2 03-16-2008 10:17 AM
Help with changing Head Gasket duncan59 General Maintenance 0 10-19-2007 08:26 PM
Paper head gasket Grampian30 Troubleshooting 0 10-15-2007 10:44 AM
Head Gasket Material doralda Cooling System 1 05-12-2007 06:17 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


Universal® is a registered trademark of Westerbeke Corporation

Copyright © 2004-2024 Moyer Marine Inc.

All Rights Reserved