Neutral versus cutlass bearing

[marginal]

Hi all,
Long time lurker, first time poster. To start with, thanks very much for the huge amount that I've learnt reading these forums since acquiring a boat with an A4.

Today I fired up the engine with boat on the cradle, with the water intake in a bucket with a hose. She ran like a champ, so no issues with the engine itself, but a passer by insisted that I need to tighten the cutlass bearing since the prop was spinning in neutral.

From what I've learnt here I'm not surprised at all that the prop spins in neutral, and I do have a good neutral - I can spin the prop by hand in both directions with ease when the engine is not running.

I am quite comfortable with a little transmission drag turning the prop in air in neutral, and I think in the water the spinning would be much reduced. I don't beleive tightening the cutlass to provide more drag is either wise or necessary - am I right about this?

Thanks for the help
Simon

[ndutton]

Ahh, passer-by experts. Gotta luv 'em.

• The cutless bearing is not adjustable such that you can impart drag. Strike one.
• Even if you could, why impart drag at all? It would be there in forward too. Strike two.
• Mr. Passer-by insisted? When he didn't have a clue what he was talking about and not enough sense to shut his yap? Strike three.

Your instincts were spot on. I don't see a big issue with a little rotation either provided the cutless doesn't have excessive play. Carry on - - and welcome to the best sailboat forum on the web.

[romantic comedy]

Hey Marginal, can you get me a bucket of steam? Along with tightening the cutlass, you need to adjust the exhaust bearings.

love the boat yard.

[CalebD]

Tell us what you really think Neil!

Said passerby also did not know that your boat is equipped with the venerable Atomic 4 engine. The direct drive transmission used by many of us also has a very small range of "true" neutral; where the shaft doesn't spin at all. Passerby would not know this either likely being an expert on diesel engines only.

Replacing the cutless bearing has nothing to do with whether the shaft is spinning or not. It has to do with how much side to side play is evident where the shaft emerges from the bearing. If there is more than, say 1/16" of play then it is time to replace the cutless bearing.

[ndutton]

Originally Posted by CalebD

Passerby would not know this either likely being an expert on diesel engines only.

Well sir, he sure ain't no friggin' expert on cutless bearings. I propose his area of expertise lies somewhere between $&#@ and Shinola.

[marginal]

Thanks all for the reassurance.
The cutless (I always thought it was cutlass, and wondered why...) was replaced last year and there is no perceptible play.

RC, I guess it is possible that he was pulling my leg, but it didn't feel like it, I didn't detect any hint of humour. I think it was indeed a case of a "boatyard expert".

Thanks
Simon

[jstaff]

The cutless (I always thought it was cutlass, and wondered why...)

One is/was a trade name.

[67c&ccorv]

Originally Posted by marginal

Thanks all for the reassurance.
The cutless (I always thought it was cutlass, and wondered why...) was replaced last year and there is no perceptible play.

RC, I guess it is possible that he was pulling my leg, but it didn't feel like it, I didn't detect any hint of humour. I think it was indeed a case of a "boatyard expert".

Thanks
Simon

Did he have a patch over one eye and a ring in his ear...because only a pirate knows about the cutlass bearing!

Arrrrrrgggghhhh!

[ndutton]

I've actually seen both versions used accurately. In the 70's when I was the purchasing agent at Islander Yachts they were called 'cutlass' bearings. I've always called them that until the topic came up on this forum a while back. I did a little digging and found the 'cutless' name is more commonly used these days and not by misspelled convention.

As jstaff said, brand names - both. Either way is correct.

[hanleyclifford]

I suggest limiting the spinning of prop and shaft on the hard while dry. I like to unbolt the coupling when out of the water so I can run the engine as much as I like without harming the cutless.

[Dave Neptune]

The direct drive trans does not have a true neutral position like a standard "transmission". It is a direct drive with a "wet clutch" and all it does is release the clutch which sort of converts it into a poor torque converter, IE it is the friction of the viscosity of the oil that it is immersed in that drives the assembly via friction between the plates while in neutral. This clearance in neutral is restricted by the adjustment necessary to facilitate the "detent's" adjustment and the reversing band needs it's clearance too.
If you don't like the bit of spin try thinner oil, which would not be good for these ole engines.

Dave Neptune

[jbsoukup]

just give it a little reverse 'till the shaft stops spinning.
sometimes I even step on the spinning shaft with my work boot to stop it.
once the oil warms up it'll stay neutral

[edwardc]

Pretty obvious the dock "expert" didn't even know his terms. He almost certainly was thinking of the packing gland when he advised tightening the cutless bearing.

Even given this, it shows he didn't know c__p about the proper care and maintenance of marine power plants of ANY kind.

[Mo]

Everything is likely fine and no adjustment required anywhere. I just came back from running up a friends engine. The prop may or may not turn a little bit when running on the hard. There is no drag on it really and I just give the cuttlass a shot of whatever lubricant happens to be at hand.

I like to run an engine 10 to 20 minutes prior to launch so that any carb adjustments can be made and a thorough
look for leaks such as a water pump leaking or exhaust.

[Sloopdogg]

Originally Posted by ndutton

Ahh, passer-by experts. Gotta luv 'em.

• The cutless bearing is not adjustable such that you can impart drag. Strike one.
• Even if you could, why impart drag at all? It would be there in forward too. Strike two.
• Mr. Passer-by insisted? When he didn't have a clue what he was talking about and not enough sense to shut his yap? Strike three.

Your instincts were spot on. I don't see a big issue with a little rotation either provided the cutless doesn't have excessive play. Carry on - - and welcome to the best sailboat forum on the web.

I wish there was some kind of like button...this is awesome!!

[bigal]

I noticed that the shaft spins with the transmission in "neutral" and tie the prop to the strut so that it won't spin when running the engine on the hard, it will damage the cutlass (or cutless) bearing. Be sure to remember to remove this tie up when the boat is launched.

[Pater]

Ask your boatyard expert if he would be so kind as to go to the local library and get their most recent cannon report for the correct torque settings.
Pater:http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/im...ons/icon12.gif