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  #1   IP: 64.70.117.9
Old 12-09-2016, 10:30 AM
JAK JAK is offline
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Sabre 28-1 exhaust rebuild

Fellow Afourians,

I am in need of your help.
So the pipe in pipe , jacketed exhaust on my 1974 Sabre 28-1 corroded and allowed water back into the engine.
This must have been long in the making but I didn't catch it.
I had the exhaust on the list for this winter, but I put it on the list too late, the engine has a lot of water in the oil now and at least for now it looks to me that I am in for an exchange engine. Oh boy.

So I started to look into rebuilding the exhaust with a water lift muffler etc.
It turns out that that will be extremely difficult on a Sabre 28.
Those of you familiar with the boat, know what I am talking about.
Complying to the requirements in terms of height between the parts in the system is not possible. Twisting my brain, looking at every small boat wet exhaust out there, and can't figure it out.

Later Sabre models 28-2 and 28-3 are supposed to have water lifts.
I have not yet seen one. Anybody out there who has a Sabre 28 with a water lift? Please send me images!

The other route I am contemplating now, is repairing or rebuilding the existing water jacket system. If new it does work very well, and I know it fits into the boat well. Yes, that will be more expensive, but I actually might have no other viable chance.
(Tartan style standpipe might be another option...)

Does anybody know how the pipes are running in the vertical part of the water jacket?

Much appreciated!
J.
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  #2   IP: 137.200.32.22
Old 12-09-2016, 10:41 AM
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joe_db joe_db is offline
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Not trying to cut into Moyer's engine selling business, but water in the oil is not always a death sentence.
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  #3   IP: 161.213.49.150
Old 12-09-2016, 11:18 AM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is online now
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I'm with Joe. Water in the engine is more of an inconvenience than a death sentence.
Is there is any way you can cobble a temporary exhaust and get the engine started and get the water out of it? At a minimum take the spark plugs out and squirt some MMO into the cylinders. If the engine still turns then turn the engine with the starter.

TRUE GRIT
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  #4   IP: 64.70.117.9
Old 12-09-2016, 12:13 PM
JAK JAK is offline
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I did get it to start for winterizing, very rough running, but I got antifreeze in there. When doing the oil change afterwards, only very little oil left, and it was white thick snot. Got fogging oil in the cylinders.

I'll meet my mechanic hopefully this weekend to discuss, and perhaps you are right and the engine can be saved, which would be extra awesome.
For now I expect the worst.

What absolutely needs a rebuild is the rotten exhaust, and I am going crazy as I can not figure out how to, either get a proper water-lift muffler system in there that will not swamp because of too little clearance, or get more information about that existing water jacketed exhaust.

I understand what happens in the horizontal part right after the manifold at the water injection point. But what happens after the turn to the vertical part?
How do those two pipes continue in there? I can not find a drawing or any information about that.

It should be doable to recreate that system in stainless. I know, will be $$$, but it works and fits. Just need to know what happens in there.
Might have to cut it up to measure and get a drawing.

So the engine is either toast and will be replaced, or can be saved, expensive but pretty clear.
The exhaust is beyond me.

Thanks!
J.
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  #5   IP: 64.70.117.9
Old 12-09-2016, 12:18 PM
JAK JAK is offline
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Also got as much of the snot-oil out and refilled with fresh oil.
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  #6   IP: 161.213.49.150
Old 12-09-2016, 01:57 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAK View Post
I understand what happens in the horizontal part right after the manifold at the water injection point. But what happens after the turn to the vertical part?
How do those two pipes continue in there? I can not find a drawing or any information about that.

It should be doable to recreate that system in stainless. I know, will be $$$, but it works and fits. Just need to know what happens in there.
Might have to cut it up to measure and get a drawing.
The exhaust is beyond me.
J.
You can't figure it out because it is wrong the way it is!
The injection point for the cooling water should be on the downward leg of the vertical riser. The cooling water has free entry back into the manifold when it is injected so close to the manifold in a horizontal section.
Also you might consider wrapping the hot part of the system rather than using a water jacketed set up. A stand pipe might be a good idea in the end.
I'm not an expert in marine exhaust system design and I don't know your boat. Other members are experts. Hang in there. They will be along soon.

TRUE GRIT
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  #7   IP: 64.70.117.9
Old 12-09-2016, 02:14 PM
JAK JAK is offline
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Awesome! Thank you!

Yes, that was my first thought when I looked at it, I thought this is insane to inject the water so close to the manifold into a horizontal pipe.
Boat heels, water runs into the manifold. That couldn't be really, too crazy.

What I found out here on the forum is that it is a pipe-in-pipe system, water gets injected into an outer pipe that is wrapping around an inner pipe.
As long as the pipes don't corrode water can not get back into the manifold.

In my case that must have happened, a hole developed in the inner pipe and suddenly the water had a very quick path into the manifold.

The learning never stops, but this will be a brutally expensive learning experience.
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  #8   IP: 161.213.49.150
Old 12-09-2016, 02:46 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is online now
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Originally Posted by JAK View Post
The learning never stops, but this will be a brutally expensive learning experience.
A boat is a hole on the water into which one pours money.

Also: B.O.A.T. = Break Out Another Thousand


TRUE GRIT
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  #9   IP: 174.192.31.133
Old 12-09-2016, 04:27 PM
tac tac is offline
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Why not call Sabre Yachts? They're in Casco (Raymond) Maine, and doing well. A friend has an old '78 or so Sabre 34 and has gotten lots of help, advice, and parts from the factory. Their website is sabreyachts.com. They used to have a lot of .pdf tech notes for download.
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  #10   IP: 137.103.82.194
Old 12-09-2016, 05:03 PM
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I would strongly advise doing more or the engine may well be rusted together in the spring. If you can make any kind of temporary exhaust, it will do you a world of good to get the engine up to temperature and do a couple oil changes until all water is gone.
If you cannot do that, I would pour a lot of MMO down the spark plug holes at the very least.
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  #11   IP: 64.70.117.9
Old 12-09-2016, 05:51 PM
JAK JAK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tac View Post
Why not call Sabre Yachts? They're in Casco (Raymond) Maine, and doing well. A friend has an old '78 or so Sabre 34 and has gotten lots of help, advice, and parts from the factory. Their website is sabreyachts.com. They used to have a lot of .pdf tech notes for download.
I've contacted Glen Chaplin at Sabre already. He is indeed a great source of information on the older models, but no luck with the exhaust on the 28.
No original drawing exists unfortunately.
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  #12   IP: 64.70.117.9
Old 12-09-2016, 05:57 PM
JAK JAK is offline
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Thanks Joe,

I'll try if I get the engine running again.
Will do the Marvel for sure.

Could anybody recommend a marine metal fabricator that could help with the pipe in pipe water jacket exhaust rebuild, preferably in the NE / Long Island area?

Thanks,

J.
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  #13   IP: 64.70.117.9
Old 12-13-2016, 10:29 AM
JAK JAK is offline
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For what it's worth:

Met my mechanic over the weekend, and we will take the engine out and bring it to his shop. See if it can be rebuild and if not it will be an exchange engine.

Exhaust comes out and will be rebuild locally from 316 stainless.

There is just no way I'd get a proper water lift muffler system in there.

(Filled the cylinders with Marvel Mystery Oil)

Thanks everybody.
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  #14   IP: 75.68.84.73
Old 03-14-2021, 09:30 PM
wagner wagner is offline
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Follow up?

Jak,
Did you ever get this figured out? What happened?
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