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  #1   IP: 38.106.121.9
Old 10-13-2013, 09:56 AM
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Unhappy Engine won't start!

I've been motoring down the ICW for a couple of weeks. It has been running fine, and always started right away, except for one. Yesterday morning after anchoring overnight, it would not start at all. It cranks very well but will not turn over. I had to get towed 30 miles to a marina, and there is no mechanic available.

Last month, I replaced the plugs, points, condenser, rotor, and D-cap, and it ran fine after that. Last year I replaced the fuel pump and oil pressure safety switch.

First thing I did was replace the 2 mic fuel filter, since I haven't done that this year. The old filter was dirty. I emptied the Racor water separator, and did not find any evidence of water. Just dirt and gas. The engine still would not start. I disconnected the fuel line from the carb, and verified good fuel flow to the carb while cranking. I tried using starting fluid, and there was no response.

I then removed the distributor cap. I noticed one side was a little loose and the D-cap had pinched the condenser wire, but did not seem to damage the wire. It just squeezed the insulation. I checked the point gap, and it appeared to be closed at the point it should be open, so I did a rough re-gap. No noticeable wear or damage to the secondary electronics. I re-installed the D-cap, making sure not to pinch the condenser wire, and tried to start again. No luck.

I'm out of things to check. What should I do?? Please help.
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  #2   IP: 96.253.106.105
Old 10-13-2013, 10:15 AM
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ILikeRust ILikeRust is offline
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Air, fuel, spark. Gotta have all three - and the way to diagnose is to isolate each one, one at a time.

If you squirted starting fluid in there, with no response, that would seem to indicate you're lacking the spark part of the equation. The fact that you found the wire for the condenser pinched might bolster that theory.

Do you have a spare condenser on board? You might consider swapping out for a new one just to see if that's the issue.
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  #3   IP: 96.253.106.105
Old 10-13-2013, 10:16 AM
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BTW, have you pulled and inspected your spark plugs, and verified spark?
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  #4   IP: 50.53.206.94
Old 10-13-2013, 10:54 AM
67rway 67rway is offline
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As Rust mentioned, the no-start with starting fluid eliminates the fuel issue.

I'd carefully inspect the cap/rotor if you find no spark, given that you found it loose. The cap/rotor contacts may have been damaged if the cap were able to rock around a bit. Might be able to restore them temporarily with a quick scrapping/cleaning.
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  #5   IP: 72.45.14.161
Old 10-13-2013, 11:30 AM
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The condenser itself can go bad too.
Basic check - AFTER making sure there are no gas fumes.
Take the neg side of the coil and run a wire to ground.
Take the wire from the coil to the distributor and remove from distributor.
Hold that wire about 1/4" from the engine and swipe a wire connected to 12 volts across the positive coil terminal. There should be a decent spark to ground from the high voltage wire. If not, 90% chance the coil died and maybe 10% chance your high voltage wire died. I have had both at various times..............


If that proves out good, then go on to the points.condenser/rotor/etc to look for trouble.

Last edited by joe_db; 10-13-2013 at 02:37 PM.
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  #6   IP: 24.152.131.153
Old 10-13-2013, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdecker View Post
I noticed one side was a little loose and the D-cap had pinched the condenser wire, but did not seem to damage the wire. It just squeezed the insulation.
Even if not visible, if the pinch grounded the wire the coil is done.
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Old 10-13-2013, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdecker View Post
... I checked the point gap, and it appeared to be closed at the point it should be open, ...
It's possible that your initial problem was the closed points, but all your efforts to start it with the points closed was putting continuous current through the coil and may have cooked it.

If the test that joe_db described yeilds no spark, try replacing the coil.
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  #8   IP: 38.106.121.9
Old 10-13-2013, 03:14 PM
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Still no joy.

Forgot to mention that I installed my replacement coil yesterday while the "bad" condenser was still in. I just replaced the condenser and it doesn't start. I pulled the coil to distributor wire out and tested for spark and there is no spark with the new coil. Maybe I cooked it with the old condenser?

I tested the wire coming from the regulator to the + coil input, and it is fine, but the stub coming from the regulator is hard wired into it. FYI, I tested the output of the regulator to ground and got 6V. What do you think? Replace coil again, or regulator?
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Old 10-13-2013, 08:06 PM
67rway 67rway is offline
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Someone more knowledgeable will certainly jump in, but I'll meanwhile...

You have to have 12v at the coil + connection. If you've only got 6v there she's not going to fire.

If it were me I'd isolate the regulator issue (disconnect the alternator output) and run a jumper from battery + to the coil +, and see if she sparks/runs.
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  #10   IP: 174.58.84.3
Old 10-13-2013, 10:49 PM
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A quick coil test:

Hook battery voltage to the + of the coil. Hook up a high tension (center wire) at a 1/8 gap to the ground. Hook a wire to the - of the coil and touch it on and off to the ground. It will cause a spark.
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  #11   IP: 72.45.14.161
Old 10-14-2013, 09:58 AM
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Yes - as just mentioned above, TOTALLY bypass the existing wiring. Coil + straight to 12 volts and coil - straight to ground. When you break the connection it should trigger a large spark on the high voltage wire. Do not leave it on - that is what burns the coil out!
Once you prove the coil works, we can work out the rest of the issues.
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  #12   IP: 38.106.121.9
Old 10-14-2013, 10:24 AM
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I have made sparks!

I did that test this morning, and got sparks! I even tried different wires from coil to ground/ D-cap and got spark, so that rules out the coil and the wire.

Regulator? Can I get one separate from a new alternator? As I mentioned yesterday, I only measured 6V from the AUX regulator output to ground on the multimeter.
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  #13   IP: 50.53.206.94
Old 10-14-2013, 10:57 AM
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So, she runs now?
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  #14   IP: 38.106.121.9
Old 10-14-2013, 11:00 AM
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No, I had to bypass the distributor, alternator, and regulator to get the sparks. I'm afraid if I try to bypass the ignition switch and try to start it, I won't be able to shut it off!
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Old 10-14-2013, 11:02 AM
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Assuming you ran a jumper to the coil + to do so and have spark at the plug wires, she should run.

All you'd have to do to shut it off is remove that jumper wire, or choke it.

If she runs at this point, I'd be checking the OPSS you just put in....
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Old 10-14-2013, 11:37 AM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
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Spark, Fuel, Compression

Disconnect the wire at coil-. With the points closed lay an ohm meter on this wire and the distributor breaker plate. S\B zero ohms. Now open the points and test again as before with the ohm meter. S\B an open circuit. Reconnect the wire to coil - and power up the coil. Pull the center lead out of the distributor and hold it close to the engine to ground. Flick the points open and let them snap close to check for spark. Finally attach a spark plug to a wire, hold it close to the engine and check for spark while someone cranks the engine. You now have spark.
Is the choke all the way closed? Are the plugs wet with fuel after no start cranking? How's the compression?
I'd disconnect the alternator for now. It sounds like it is confusing the no start issue.
Have fun!

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Last edited by JOHN COOKSON; 10-14-2013 at 01:13 PM.
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Old 10-14-2013, 12:14 PM
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I am not getting the reference to the regulator
Sure if it does not work correctly the batteries will go dead eventually, but that does not sound like what is happening. Other than that, why is the regulator involved in this and where is this 6 volt measurement being done?
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:48 PM
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Talking Solved: it was the points!!

The marina manager loaned me an old outboard motor repair manual that had some tests you could do to test your coil and points. I determined the coil was good, and the points failed their tests. I bought a new set for $5 and it started right up!!

Thanks everyone for your help. I was ready to buy a new carb or alternator, or worse. I'll be underway in the morning.

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Old 10-16-2013, 01:56 PM
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Ok.cool..thanks for the update.
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Old 10-16-2013, 05:15 PM
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test procedure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdecker View Post
I determined the coil was good, and the points failed their tests.
The prior posts to your thread discussed a coil test - and all sounds logical.

But can you please summarize the POINTS test you used. I just want to make sure i got it straight how to isolate points from other no-start causes.
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