how many have upgraded to external oil filter?

[tcrane29664]

just wondering, and any input on level of difficulty of installing it appreciated

Tim

[hanleyclifford]

The external oil filter is easy to install if you buy the Indigo kit. But you should know that the system is limited in that it only filters the "bleed off" from the oil pressure relief valve. If your engine requires the oil adjuster to be turned in anywhere near "bottoming", your actual filtered oil will be minimal. Nonetheless, the filter is a good upgrade and any A4 with a view to long term survival should have one.

[marthur]

Every thing Hanley says is true, but I will add two thoughts:

First, a new oil pressure regulator is part of the Indigo kit. The Indigo oil pressure regulator is rock steady--much more that my original atomic 4 regulator. I usually see something like 37 PSI at startup and 40 PSI at cruise.

Second, Tom Stevens claims that the Indigo system will filter all the oil in the system every few minutes. I have seen a big improvement in my oil color clarity since adding the filter. For that reason I am very happy with my installation.

I also agree with Hanley that the Indigo kit is a breeze to install. I have limited access to the carb side of my motor, but it still took only 60 to 90 minutes from start to finish (and about 20 minutes of that was spent finding something I dropped).

[Dave Neptune]

Tim, I insttalled a bypass type filter when I bought mine 27 years ago. My engine is 42 years old and is original except for #4 exhaust valve.
It was very simple to tap into the preassure sendor and return o to the reversing gear cover. It took longer to mount the filter than to do the hook up.

Dave Neptune

[Cool Beans]

Originally Posted by hanleyclifford

Nonetheless, the filter is a good upgrade and any A4 with a view to long term survival should have one.

My engine is as far as I know, no filter original and 37 years old. . .what's long term after this point

Seriously though, I've contemplated the oil filter mod but never felt it was that beneficial without filtering the primary oil passage like in an automobile.

[hanleyclifford]

Originally Posted by Cool Beans

My engine is as far as I know, no filter original and 37 years old. . .what's long term after this point

Seriously though, I've contemplated the oil filter mod but never felt it was that beneficial without filtering the primary oil passage like in an automobile.

Unquestionably the benefit of installing an oil filter on the A4 filtering only that amount of oil that is bled off by the relief valve is marginal. There is, however, something to be said for running the oil, even rarely, thru a filter with the view of picking up the odd chip. The better method is an independent pump. The marginal value increases in proportion to your dependence on the engine.

[ndutton]

I'm sure it's no surprise where I'm at on this. Cool Beans said it pretty well.

Atomic 4's were produced from 1947 to 1984, most on this forum 35 or more years old and not a single one with an oil filter for most of its life (filters being a relatively new wrinkle) and now we should have one for long term survival? Anyone have a guess of the number of engines that succumbed to dirty oil as opposed to corrosion related problems?

Look, if you want a filter then by all means you should have one, I'm just not persuaded by the discussion in favor compared to 65 years of history. And counting.

[marthur]

So Tim, the answer to your question is that many of us have installed the oil filter and some have not. It is relatively easy.

From the discussion you might infer that we have questions to answer and not enough data to do resolve the debate. Does the Indigo system clean the oil well? Only an analysis of the oil from a filtered engine would answer that question adequately but some of us claim noticeably clearer oil at a 50 hour oil change.

Second question: would the cleaner oil benefit the engine by reducing issues associated with impurities, such as wear? And more importantly: is the difference enough to reduce the lifetime of the motor? This one is not likely to be settled in any definitive way because of the many variables that arise in the life of a machine that might last half a century before rebuild.

A third question is whether there is some other benefit to have oil filtration. Things I have in mind are longer intervals between oil changes, fewer sticky deposits on valves or rings, etc...

The cool thing about this forum is that we can disagree and still be supportive and friendly. How many other places can you have discussions with people who are clearly insane (as indicated by their not agreeing with you) but still genuinely like them?

[tcrane29664]

Originally Posted by hanleyclifford

The external oil filter is easy to install if you buy the Indigo kit. But you should know that the system is limited in that it only filters the "bleed off" from the oil pressure relief valve. If your engine requires the oil adjuster to be turned in anywhere near "bottoming", your actual filtered oil will be minimal. Nonetheless, the filter is a good upgrade and any A4 with a view to long term survival should have one.

tonite when we cranked her with a guage installed for oil pres, she's gettin 40 at idle, 72 and up with more throttle...

tried my best to get the phone's video to work, could not, will post video when I go back down on Thursday.

[tcrane29664]

Originally Posted by marthur

Every thing Hanley says is true, but I will add two thoughts:

First, a new oil pressure regulator is part of the Indigo kit. The Indigo oil pressure regulator is rock steady--much more that my original atomic 4 regulator. I usually see something like 37 PSI at startup and 40 PSI at cruise.

Second, Tom Stevens claims that the Indigo system will filter all the oil in the system every few minutes. I have seen a big improvement in my oil color clarity since adding the filter. For that reason I am very happy with my installation.

I also agree with Hanley that the Indigo kit is a breeze to install. I have limited access to the carb side of my motor, but it still took only 60 to 90 minutes from start to finish (and about 20 minutes of that was spent finding something I dropped).

thanks for the info, i'm runnin about 40 at idle, 70 and up as throttle increased. will probably be ordering the indigo, but don't think I'll wait about the install, which right now is scheduled for Fri afternoon or Sat morning...can't WAIT! lol

[tcrane29664]

Originally Posted by marthur

So Tim, the answer to your question is that many of us have installed the oil filter and some have not. It is relatively easy.

From the discussion you might infer that we have questions to answer and not enough data to do resolve the debate. Does the Indigo system clean the oil well? Only an analysis of the oil from a filtered engine would answer that question adequately but some of us claim noticeably clearer oil at a 50 hour oil change.

Second question: would the cleaner oil benefit the engine by reducing issues associated with impurities, such as wear? And more importantly: is the difference enough to reduce the lifetime of the motor? This one is not likely to be settled in any definitive way because of the many variables that arise in the life of a machine that might last half a century before rebuild.

A third question is whether there is some other benefit to have oil filtration. Things I have in mind are longer intervals between oil changes, fewer sticky deposits on valves or rings, etc...

The cool thing about this forum is that we can disagree and still be supportive and friendly. How many other places can you have discussions with people who are clearly insane (as indicated by their not agreeing with you) but still genuinely like them?

well put, and this forum is like finding gold ...

[hanleyclifford]

Originally Posted by tcrane29664

tonite when we cranked her with a guage installed for oil pres, she's gettin 40 at idle, 72 and up with more throttle...

tried my best to get the phone's video to work, could not, will post video when I go back down on Thursday.

72 psi is excessive; suggest you back that out so you get 40 psi at cruise.

[marthur]

The idle oil pressure can be signicantly lower than 40 psi. 20 psi is common at idle. However I seem to recall a recommendation tha the oil pressure not exceed 60 psi. Can anyone else help with that?

[thatch]

Higher oil pressures than the recommended 40 psi has crept into the conversation a few times lately. One thing that has not been mentioned is that, that increase in pressure is not "free". In other words it takes horsepower to create oil pressure. In recent years, in regulated classes of drag racing, "savvy" engine builders have lowered the oil pressure to about 45 psi in a quest gain back some of the horsepower they were loosing at 80 psi. Granted, these engines are only performing 1/4 mile at a time, but they are apparently having success with this approach. For years the rule of thumb has been 10 psi of oil pressure for every 1000 rpm, so, bearing this in mind, 40 psi for our A4's should be ample. Getting back to the question of adding an oil filter to these engines, I agree it can reduce wear "but" I would seriously consider adding "fresh water cooling" if it's in the budget before adding the oil filter. Why?, every season we loose more and more A4's from age related rust out. The cleanest oil in the world won't help if your block rusts through.
Tom

[marthur]

Tom, your thought about FWC makes a lot of sense. Here on the Great Lakes we can't avoid FWC, so I don't tend to think about it. That is one of the reasons I can power my dinghy with a 1957 Evinrude : )

Mike

[Dave Neptune]

Re filter no filter, a full flow is the best way. However any filtration is better than none. We still rely on the screen for anything catastrophic and hope we shut down in time if something starts coming apart.
I go around a 100 hours between oil changes. I change my oil at the end of the season so she sits in clean uncontaminated oil for the off season. I know the recomendation is 50 but todays oils are better and mine is still clear at the end of the season and is not breaking down as far as holding preassure.
The filter is not necessary, but it is not a bad idea.

Dave Neptune

[ndutton]

I don't use my engine much, maybe 20 hours annually. As a regular maintenance routine I change my oil each Spring so in terms of engine hours it could be considered very frequent.

Assuming an oil change cost $10 (the current price for a gallon of Rotella at Wal-Mart), it would take me 8 years to break even on the expense of the filter kit, longer if I changed the filtered oil and filter element during that 8 year period which of course I would.

Let's say I extended the oil changes to two year periods with a filter system so if I drop $80 on the kit and $15 every other year (oil + filter) as compared to $10 annually as I currently do, by my cipherin' the financial break even point is 32 years.

[peacebart]

Originally Posted by Dave Neptune

Re filter no filter, a full flow is the best way. However any filtration is better than none. We still rely on the screen for anything catastrophic and hope we shut down in time if something starts coming apart.
I go around a 100 hours between oil changes. I change my oil at the end of the season so she sits in clean uncontaminated oil for the off season. I know the recomendation is 50 but todays oils are better and mine is still clear at the end of the season and is not breaking down as far as holding preassure.
The filter is not necessary, but it is not a bad idea.

Dave Neptune

How often do you clean the oil screen?

Bart

[Dave Neptune]

Bart, I have never had the engine apart to check the screen. The screen is pretty much a non-serviced part. It is there only for a catastrophe.

Dave Neptune

[ndutton]

Here is what the screen looks like after the complete destruction of a rod bearing. The engine still ran but with a sickening knock. The oil pressure was surprisingly decent.

[Carl-T705]

The screen protects the pump, not the engine.

[67c&ccorv]

Originally Posted by ndutton

I'm sure it's no surprise where I'm at on this. Cool Beans said it pretty well.

Atomic 4's were produced from 1947 to 1984, most on this forum 35 or more years old and not a single one with an oil filter for most of its life (filters being a relatively new wrinkle) and now we should have one for long term survival? Anyone have a guess of the number of engines that succumbed to dirty oil as opposed to corrosion related problems?

Look, if you want a filter then by all means you should have one, I'm just not persuaded by the discussion in favor compared to 65 years of history. And counting.

Think I will save my pennies for FWC.

[Dave Neptune]

67, good not to panic over them. Remember the VW Beetle's no filters there either. The filter does a bit better job of protecting the oil pump than the screen and the galley's that flow from it only in the event of catastrophe.

I personally did add a bypass type primarily so I can go longer between changes. I change once a season or about every 100 or so hours.

Dave Neptune

[hanleyclifford]

If even one of those chips on the screen in post #20 got thru and into a bearing the result could be a failed bearing - even chips smaller that those. No doubt the oil filter is a measure taken at the margin of effective engine safety and like many upgrades does feature diminishing returns to scale, but the point is that the oil filter does offer some measure of return. If you are like me and you drive your A4 a thousand miles from home, every upgrade no matter how marginal has value.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by Dave Neptune

Tim, I insttalled a bypass type filter when I bought mine 27 years ago. My engine is 42 years old and is original except for #4 exhaust valve.
It was very simple to tap into the preassure sendor and return o to the reversing gear cover. It took longer to mount the filter than to do the hook up.

Dave Neptune

I'm set on installing a Franz oil filter, which is of the by-pass type. I have the filter, marine version, so yes, I'm going to do that. However, I'm intrigued by the fact that the original installation instructions does not have any pressure regulating device involved. Just put a "T" fitting where the oil pressure sending unit is, put the sending unit on one side and use the other for the oil to get to the Franz, after which the clean oil is returned to the pan. Like you, I also plan to return it to the reversing gear cover. So, I guess my question is: How much a drop in pressure will a Franz filter installed in this way really causes? Negligible? Does the strain of having to get through the thick of a toilet paper roll simply constitute enough pressure regulation as it is?