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  #26   IP: 98.155.50.7
Old 03-05-2021, 03:58 PM
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One more idea would be to put a bit of water in the cooling jacket and then pressurize. If you get an instant milkshake in the oil pan... you know the answer... that's not good.

If you head down this drastic path, I would suggest pulling most of the oil out before trying this test. Less milkshake to remove is better.
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Last edited by ronstory; 03-05-2021 at 03:59 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #27   IP: 67.234.39.221
Old 03-09-2021, 12:02 PM
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I had some time so I have started the oil pan removal. I left my manual on the boat, 360 miles to the east so I would appreciate some conformation on what I have done.
Removed 6 short and 2 long bolts from the aft housing.
Removed 3 short bolts from the lower half of the rear oil seal retaining flange.
Removed 6 short bolts from the flywheel housing.
Removed 12 short bolts from the block.

There seems to be two alignment pins. One is below the fuel pump and the other is on the opposite side near the flywheel end motor mount. Any tips on removing these? Thanks.

Dan
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  #28   IP: 155.186.122.195
Old 03-09-2021, 12:20 PM
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Dan, I would not remove the "locating pins" unless absolutely necessary. They are "pressed" in and need to be wiggled to get out. Unless they come out easily with a pull or mild twist with pliers it is possible to damage the holes that the pins are pressed into. They could be really stuck after all of these years.

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  #29   IP: 67.234.39.221
Old 03-09-2021, 03:01 PM
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Thank you Dave. You saved me a bunch of work and possible damage.

I got the pan off and found the smoking gun. I pressurized the cooling system and could see small bubbles and liquid dripping from the flat area between the #1 and #2 cylinders. I poked around and small chunks fell off. Ended up with a line 1" long and 1/8" wide that I could push a probe thru. I guess I was into the water jacket area. I plan to pull off the water jacket cover and see how access to the leak is from that side.
There was some rust on the lower end of the #2 connecting rod. Not sure if it was there all along or if it just happened due to my pressure tests forcing water thru the leak.
Any chance to repair the leak? Is the block trash because another area may be ready to start leaking?

Dan
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  #30   IP: 155.186.122.195
Old 03-09-2021, 03:58 PM
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If the leak is in the cylinder area sleeving a common process should do fine. Downside is, what shape is the rest of the block in?

Was the engine run in saltwater and raw water cooled? If so it could be getting thin in some not so good areas.

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  #31   IP: 67.234.39.221
Old 03-09-2021, 07:58 PM
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After removing the water jacket cover and digging around some. The leak is in located the forward part of the "floor" of that chamber. This matches what I found when looking up thru the top of the crank case. The cylinder walls and the other parts of the chamber look to be in good shape compared to some of the pics we have seen on the forum. I did poke around some trying to find bad spots.
The shape of the leak makes me wonder if this area froze at some point. Possible many years ago. I am not that familiar with freeze damage other than frozen copper water supply lines. Man that brings back some memories.
As best I know this A-4 has always been RW cooled and in the brackish water of the lower Neuse River. I believe it is a MMI rebuild and I need to contact Ken and see if he can date it with the block #. Seeing how good the A-4 looks in general and the good compression #s I bet it is not that old. A freezing issue has no sense of time.

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Edit: "There were recently several blocks with a crack on the floor of the cooling chamber above the crankshaft (freeze damage?)." Post # 25.

Last edited by Marian Claire; 03-09-2021 at 08:20 PM.
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  #32   IP: 165.225.20.178
Old 03-10-2021, 04:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marian Claire View Post

Edit: "There were recently several blocks with a crack on the floor of the cooling chamber above the crankshaft (freeze damage?)." Post # 25.

I would recommend to read that whole thread, block got repaired
https://www.moyermarineforum.com/for...d+block&page=4

Another block with a crack on the bottom of the block, likely freeze damage, look at post #15 for the crack
https://www.moyermarineforum.com/for...528#post124528
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  #33   IP: 67.234.39.221
Old 03-12-2021, 06:39 AM
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After cleaning out the area around the leak this is what I found. Looks like the crack was repaired/stitched and the repair material failed. The block seems to be intact and retains the shape of the drill holes. Also it looks like some repairs below the open section. I think they are in the area where the cylinder wall/block/water jacket wall all come together. I wonder if those "holes" did not go all the way thru and where not exposed to the cooling water. ???
Everything else on the motor is in such good shape I want to explore any repair option I can before writing off the block. Pipe dream??

Dan
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  #34   IP: 165.225.20.153
Old 03-12-2021, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marian Claire View Post
After cleaning out the area around the leak this is what I found. Looks like the crack was repaired/stitched and the repair material failed. The block seems to be intact and retains the shape of the drill holes. Also it looks like some repairs below the open section. I think they are in the area where the cylinder wall/block/water jacket wall all come together. I wonder if those "holes" did not go all the way thru and where not exposed to the cooling water. ???
Everything else on the motor is in such good shape I want to explore any repair option I can before writing off the block. Pipe dream??

Dan
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Very impressive... I can't believe somebody did all that prep work and did not finish the work, or that ALL the repair material could fail. Was there some material in those holes before you cleaned? This would have been a major leak, not a minor one like described before...

I am not sure it is still suitable for a stitch repair with these holes already drilled like these.
I would recommend to call Don / Ken, and try (won't be easy) to find a block repair shop who knows what they do. It indeed looks pretty clean. Do you have more pics of the outside of the clean block?
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  #35   IP: 67.234.39.221
Old 03-12-2021, 09:30 AM
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"Was there some material in those holes before you cleaned?"
Yes. But I could easily poke thru with the sharp end of a chainsaw file. It was not until I accessed the water chamber, flushed out the little bit of goop and cleaned off the crankcase side that I could see the shape of the drill holes.
"Do you have more pics of the outside of the clean block?" I can try and take some today.
I can say that compared to what I have seen firsthand and in pics on the forum this A-4 is in good condition. Not counting the leak.
When I first found the leak I assumed that the block itself had rusted thru and there could be other places just as bad. Considering the solid and well defined edges of the holes I think the block may be fine and it was just the plug/filler material that failed.

Dan
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  #36   IP: 155.186.122.195
Old 03-12-2021, 10:28 AM
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Dan, sorry to hear you found some cracks. It does sound like it has been repaired before. If you are fresh water cooled, I'd take it to a good automotive/marine welder to see if they think they can stitch back together. Also ask them what they think of the "stitching" that was done before. If the block is in good shape as far as the material remaining your good to go for another stitching.

A fresh water cooled "stitched properly" block should yield many more year of service.

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  #37   IP: 98.155.50.7
Old 03-12-2021, 04:01 PM
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Makes you wonder if the steel they used for stitching was off a bit from the galvanic voltage of the cast iron block. With our block and pan supposedly are 'high nickel', which gives it a "lower" galvanic voltage then the typical cast iron of detroit style engine block. The galvanic voltage of mild steel and typical cast iron are effectively the same.

Since the stitching plugs rusted away, it lead me to believe it was greater galvanic voltage and those plug became the 'sacrificial anode' for the block. Add in brackish RW cooling to the process... that does not help.

Perhap the corrosion additives in the coolant for FWC would have protected it... but we may never know.

OK, that was my random musings for the day.
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Last edited by ronstory; 03-12-2021 at 04:01 PM. Reason: typos
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