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  #1   IP: 24.61.95.61
Old 10-04-2020, 01:53 PM
ArtJ ArtJ is offline
 
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Strong gas fumes after minor haulout joltng

Yesterday I hauled out my Tartan 34c on the club's Brownell Trailer
The gas was filled and stabilized a few days before.
The engine started well yesterday and ran well all season with a new carb and filters.

When after adjusting stands i went below to the cabin and smelled strong
gas fumes.
I am thinking that jolting during haulout may have stuck the
carb float or less likely, the very full tank sloshed out somewhere?

The fuel was left on during haulout and only shut off an hour or so later
when closing up the boat.

The fumes still remained this morning

I have had stuck floats due to fuel last 'season, but never this season
or so abruptly have yet to investgate

Suggestions appreciated.
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Old 10-04-2020, 05:46 PM
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Al Schober Al Schober is offline
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Check the hose between the deck fill and the tank. Mine just crumbled in my hand. Easy fix - thought I had a leaky tank.
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Old 10-04-2020, 06:17 PM
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Investigate with power off and boat well ventilated. Check the bilge with your nose. Really strong gas fumes are probably not just a stuck float valve. It could be something like a loose hose fitting above the tank which only leaks when the tank is full. Jolting on the trailer is not likely to create a new leak. Do not start the engine before checking for fumes and fixing the leak. If you can smell gas fumes anywhere but at the carb air intake, it is serious.
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Old 10-04-2020, 07:37 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is online now
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MY 1st QUESTION

Is gas pooling in the carburetor throat?

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Old 10-04-2020, 07:51 PM
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Hi Art,
Had a friend with a Tartan 34. If I remember your engine is in the middle of the cabin beneath the floor boards?? Any sign of gas in the bilge? All good suggestions the guys have mentioned.
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Old 10-04-2020, 08:42 PM
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The engine in a Tartan 34c is indeed in the cabin, but not entirely beneath the floor boards. When the engine enclosure is closed, the blower pulls air through the bilge from a vent in the forward chain locker. But, when the enclosure is removed the blower draws mainly from the bottom of the standpipe rather than the bilge. As Art may have experienced, if there is fuel under the engine or deeper in the bilge, the blower can't clear the fumes effectively when the engine cover is off.

Jack.
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Old 10-05-2020, 08:15 AM
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Thanks for the replies guys much appreciated
I have had a stuck float last season which loaded the bilge with a qt of
gas before detected. Flushing the man passage fixed that then.

This time filled the tank on Wed hauled Sar. Ran fine to dock where
t sat 4 hrs waiting my turn to haul - fuel was left turned on -was not sure
of haul out ordering.

fuel accumulate could have started then.
On these boats fuel can gravity feed when facet is off and potentially empty
tank into bilge. Too bad facet does not include a fuel shutoff option
as well as shutting itself off.
When done using boat for day always shut off the manual valve near tank
Th odor was there yesterday after overnight, but not as strong.
Normally would have checked bilge then but live 50 miles away
after helping other boats haul was xhausted. will go tomorrow
and report findings
Thanks best to all
Art

Last edited by ArtJ; 10-05-2020 at 08:17 AM.
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Old 10-05-2020, 04:18 PM
brewgyver brewgyver is offline
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Might be worth considering adding fuel stop cock at the pump inlet. Less desirable option might be to add a normally closed solenoid valve.
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Old 10-05-2020, 05:53 PM
zellerj zellerj is offline
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My 30 something aluminum fuel tank had pin holes that slowly leaked gas. Have you checked the bottom edges of your tank for corrosion?
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Old 10-05-2020, 06:27 PM
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There s a fuel shutoff at the input to the pump but when running the engine
periodically during the day it would be open except when done for the day.

I wonder if a safety in line solenoid would be a valuable safety feature when engine is off?
but that would not help for a stuck float while the engine is running
However, it would still be a worthwhile safety feature

Pinholes would be showing up all the time, not a quick rush of fuel like this. besides have a ss tank that is not too old

Thanks

Last edited by ArtJ; 10-05-2020 at 06:31 PM.
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Old 10-05-2020, 06:49 PM
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Al, I think I know how your boat engine is situated. My thought would be an easily accessible shut off very near the engine....it's gravity feed for the most so I'd have a little door there in the cover somewhere...slide it open and open the shut off valve "you just installed'....right there near the engine. I'd even consider a loop to make the pump have to do it's job and sort of prevent seepage.

I'm writing this part for the new people in our forum. We should ALWAYS go in the boat when we get aboard. 1. we either smell gas or we don't. 2. It really doesn't take gallons of gas to create fumes in warm weather...flash point ratio. If you smell gas it's fumes can flash/ignite with a spark. Gas has been known to flash at -40 F or -40 C...that's significant.

Al, wishing you all the best on this and I'm sure you will sort it out .

mo
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  #12   IP: 24.61.95.61
Old 10-06-2020, 08:23 PM
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Problem ID'D

was at the boat today
The only leak found was very minuscule amount of gas seeping around the gauge gasket located directly to the top of the ss gas tank located under a settee .
I tightened the screws around its gasket. Plan to add some Permatex around the gauge. Can't remove it due to very full tank.
The gauge is a circular needle dial type - similar to those found on outboard tanks
Every where else was bone dry - hoses, clamps, bilge, vents, fill hoses, fittings

Thanks Best to all
Art
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Old 10-06-2020, 10:09 PM
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FWIW Seal-All works good around gas. Small leak..works great and once set up not affected by gas.
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The pessimist complains about the wind.
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The realist adjusts the sails.
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Old 10-07-2020, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewgyver View Post
Might be worth considering adding fuel stop cock at the pump inlet. Less desirable option might be to add a normally closed solenoid valve.
A solenoid controlled valve would be excellent for engine off on during a
day of use. The manual shutoff good for longer over nite protection

Maybe a solenoid project idea for Neil ??
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Old 10-07-2020, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtJ View Post
Maybe a solenoid project idea for Neil ??
Easily done without exotic engineering:
https://www.amazon.com/Electric-Sole.../dp/B00APDNPXG
However, consider that it is another potential failure point for reliable engine operation and frankly sounds like a work-around of the real problem, why is the fuel leaking in the first place? While a shut off solenoid valve will work, my advice is to deal with the problem directly.
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Old 10-07-2020, 02:57 PM
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It would make the most sense to fix the leak. If it is the carb or some other thing.
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Old 10-07-2020, 05:18 PM
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I had a similar problem last season when I topped up the tank up to the cap after the boat was taken out of the water. Never had even a slight gas odor during the season.

Here was my way of thinking when troubleshooting the issue.

Since it was not a problem until I topped up the tank most likely the leak was somewhere is hose between the deck fill and the tank or in the joint. The latter was more likely as rubber hose joints tend to start leaking just a little bit if stay dry for extended period of time. I'm seeing that with my other gas engine tools.

Also, the previous owner mentioned that he relocated the deck fill hole. Apparently, he never tested if the joint was tight.
So, I tighten the joint as much as I could. Also, I try to not fill up to the very top since then. The problem disappeared and never happened again.

Last edited by amizerin; 10-07-2020 at 07:47 PM.
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Old 10-07-2020, 05:47 PM
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When I used to overfill my tank so much that gas came out the vent tube (dumb) I would smell gas. Not to strong but it was there. After I ran the engine for short while the smell would go away.
I finally put 2 +2 together and removed the vent tubing. It was made out of some sort of cheap rubber. I couldn't see any evidence of deterioration. None the less I replaced the vent tube with ethanol rated tubing and quite overfilling. No more gas smell.

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Old 10-08-2020, 11:15 AM
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Thumbs up

Art, I am going to guess the gasket at the top got immersed with fuel when the boat was tipped aft on the trailer...when sitting level, splashing from normal boat movements did not allow fuel to leak. Good Find!
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Old 10-09-2020, 01:36 AM
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Thanks Guys

The fumes was resolved as gauge seep see earlier responses

We have a 8 month storage in NE standard practice is to completely fill for prevention of water in tank & phase separation along with adding MMO and stabilizer.

I have a Xantrex Gas Fume sensor Alarm which notifies but does not prevent stuck float or other leaks.

The solenoid was for general discussion of additional measures. A manual
shutoff near carb is for over nite and longer periods but is not practical
when starting and stopping fairly frequently.

Best to all
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Old 10-09-2020, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
Easily done without exotic engineering:
https://www.amazon.com/Electric-Sole.../dp/B00APDNPXG
However, consider that it is another potential failure point for reliable engine operation and frankly sounds like a work-around of the real problem, why is the fuel leaking in the first place? While a shut off solenoid valve will work, my advice is to deal with the problem directly.
You might want to read all the reviews before ordering that thing. It is NOT designed to be on for long time periods and gets very hot when used that way.
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Old 10-09-2020, 09:48 AM
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Our 1977 Pearson 323 came with an OEM fuel cutoff solenoid built onto the top of the fuel pickup on the tank. I think the brand was fuel-trol (or something like that).
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Old 10-09-2020, 04:47 PM
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With my fuel tank above the engine I have an anti-siphon hose fitting on the tank. The suction of the fuel pump is enough to open the flow. When not running no flow possible (except the potential for what in the hose of course )
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Old 10-09-2020, 09:36 PM
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A fun project would be to fabricate a manual fuel shut off valve that is operated by a bowden/choke cable from the cockpit. It might not be too hard to do. Probably one can be found with google.
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