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  #1   IP: 74.107.117.60
Old 04-22-2011, 07:24 PM
aaaaahab aaaaahab is offline
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??Ballast/balast??

My engine had strange symptoms last fall. It would start but when the key was returned to the regular on position from the start position it shut off.
It also was intermittent in kicking in to start. Sometimes nothing happened in the start position.
So, this Spring I got a new ignition switch and a new solenoid for the starter. After installing them, on the first try the starter engaged, the engine started and continued to run when I returned the key to the on position.
I let it run for about 30 minutes, it continued to run until I turned the key off. Then it restarted and ran 'till I turned the ignition off.
Thought it was cured and went home - midnight.
Then two days later I returned. On the first try starter engaged and engine started but it almost immediately stopped running on its own. Second try starter engaged momentarily but stopped before I released the starter switch and before the engine started. Then for a number of tries nothing happened when the starter switch was turned on. In later tries the solenoid would kick then stop before turning over starter. Finally, when applying starter switch I noticed that as I moved it into position the silent would try but immediately stop and there would be no more action while the starter switch was left on. This continues. Engine will not start with hand crank. Battery is charged.

What is wrong? Someone said the ballast/balast is bad. What is that? Is it a separate part or is it internal in the coil? Should I try a new coil? What do you suggest? I have checked and cleaned all the electrical connections, I think.
Engine is old, rust here and there and maybe oil on some connection. I am at a loss of what to do next, HELP.
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Old 04-23-2011, 06:42 AM
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Sounds like time for some diagnostics. First, I'd get the ignition switch & it's wiring out of the loop. Run a jumper wire right from battery + to the coil +, which will take out the on/off part of the switch/wiring. Also, go to your auto parts store and get a remote starter button - connects from battery + to the solenoid. Finally, a test light from the starter + to ground. These should help isolate the issue(s).

Al
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Old 04-23-2011, 08:37 AM
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Your symptoms suggest loose or improper connection or another switch failure (why?). Al's sent you down the right path but I offer these two cautions:
  1. Do not leave the coil jumper in place for any length of time without the engine running.
  2. Keep the raw water intake closed until she's running. Prolonged cranking with the valve open is a recipe for disaster.
How are your electrical skills?
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Last edited by ndutton; 04-23-2011 at 10:41 PM. Reason: Removed dead wrong information
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Old 04-23-2011, 01:37 PM
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Neil,
I think the advice he got about the ballast resistor comes from the old version like what was used on old Plymouths. It was resistor for dropping the voltage for running, but was bypassed during starting/cranking. Full 12 volts during cranking—less for running. We used to see this same condition in those old cars, starts during cranking and then die when the key was let back to run position.
I didn't even know we had them on the A-4. Do we? If not, then just ignore this post.
I stole this pic from another forum. It shows a generic ignition circuit.
What the drawing shows as "primary resistor" is what we are calling ballast resistor.

Russ
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Old 04-23-2011, 02:54 PM
aaaaahab aaaaahab is offline
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Lat64:
Yes, that is what he described.

Al and ndutton:
Thanks will try it. But can't till late next week. Will give you results.

aaaaahab
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Old 04-23-2011, 03:14 PM
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I would also check battery cable connections especially the ground from engine block to battery negative.
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Old 04-23-2011, 09:42 PM
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Exclamation Yep!

Russ, my A-4 was shipped with a ballast resistor and when I went to electronic I ditched it. It was wired the same way hot at start and 8v in run. Anyhow that was how it was hooked up when I bought her.

Dave Neptune
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Old 04-24-2011, 11:05 AM
aaaaahab aaaaahab is offline
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??Ballast/balast??

Thanks for all input.

Now I have been told what a ballast resistor is and why it might be there. It is just like lat 64's diagram. It reduces voltage in ignition position to below 12 volts (6 to 8) to extend the life of old fashioned points. Should be removed if one uses electronic distributor which likes 12V.

My engine was switched to electronic distributor beginning last season. Don't know if mine had a ballast resistor before or not. Don't know if it does now or not. Will find out later this week.

This probably is not related to my problem though. You have told me how to check if ignition switch wiring is the culprit, I will. The battery charge and terminal connections will be checked. I expect solenoid and starter will work. If they do I will then know if battery and its connections are good. And finally check all connections in ignition switch wiring. Engine should start and run if all that is well. If it still does not work I'll be on here again.
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Old 04-24-2011, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Neptune View Post
Russ, my A-4 was shipped with a ballast resistor and when I went to electronic I ditched it. It was wired the same way hot at start and 8v in run. Anyhow that was how it was hooked up when I bought her.

Dave Neptune
This 'splains everything. I just never bothered to check my own engine. I'm glad for the discussion.

Cheers all,
R.
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Old 04-24-2011, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaaaahab View Post
...Engine should start and run if all that is well. If it still does not work I'll be on here again.
Don't forget closing that thru hull until she starts...
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Old 04-27-2011, 07:41 PM
aaaaahab aaaaahab is offline
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Wink

With 12V Battery to coil and 12V Battery to solenoid and water intake off engine would not start.

In on position coil has 12V at one terminal and 9 volts at other terminal.

Checked for spark. No spark.

Checked violtage out of coil to distributor. Nothing there.

Nothing out at coil. Is that a bad coil? Or should it be that way with ignotion switch on and engine not running.

What of any voltage should be coming out of coil to distributor?
How can I check distributor?
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Old 04-28-2011, 09:17 AM
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The voltage drop across the coil means the points are closed and drawing current. Do the points open (no voltage drop across coil) during engine rotation? If not, you're not going to get any spark. Sounds like you need an ignition system tuneup.

Al
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Old 04-28-2011, 09:25 AM
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Question

What is the point gap set at, and can you tell us what you are getting for dwell readings?
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Old 05-02-2011, 12:55 PM
aaaaahab aaaaahab is offline
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??Ballast/balast??

Hanleyclifford:
What is dwell? How do I measure it?
bucky
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:11 PM
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Hopefully without objection I'll jump in here. I found a website that addresses your question and provides testing instruction.
here

However, before you spend on new test equipment for a dated ignition system you might consider putting the money toward a new electronic system that doesn't need dwell adjustment nor does it have parts that wear.
Moyer Electronic Ignition
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Last edited by ndutton; 05-02-2011 at 01:57 PM. Reason: Fixed the links
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Old 05-02-2011, 02:55 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
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Yet More Advice

You could have a bad condenser that is shorting to ground in which case the circut will not be broken when the points open = no spark. I would go for new points and condenser right off the bat.

To test the coil: with the points closed and the key on (or the jumper wire connected) hold the center lead from the coil near the engine or some other ground. Flick the points open and let them snap closed. You should see a spark. Keep at it untill you get a spark in this manner.

TRUE GRIT
I see you have electronic ignition so forget the tests with the points.

Last edited by JOHN COOKSON; 05-02-2011 at 06:30 PM. Reason: Post # 8
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Old 05-02-2011, 11:40 PM
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Even on an engine with electronic ignition there is a dwell specification and it can be checked.
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Old 05-02-2011, 11:44 PM
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But can it be adjusted?
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Old 05-03-2011, 10:41 AM
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don't dwell on it

hanley & neil, since we are on this topic, I want to make sure I understand...Dwell is the duration in time (in degrees, I assume out of one 360 degree rotation) that the ignition is firing to each cylinder, correct??
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Old 05-03-2011, 10:51 AM
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Talking Dwell

Neil - I have never had electronic ignition so I do not know if it can be adjusted. In one of his posts Don Moyer speaks of elecronic ignition having a greater dwell than standard point ignition.
Shawn - After reading the link Neil provided, I may have a misunderstanding of what dwell actually is. All my life I thought dwell was defined as the number of crankshaft degrees the points stay closed for each cylinder, but the link says open. This I do know: as I decrease the point gap, the dwell reading rises. I adjust points until I get the factory dwell specification no matter what the point gap has to be to get it.
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Old 05-03-2011, 10:58 AM
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Dwell is the amount of distributor rotation in degrees that the points remain open (according to the link, like Hanley I always thought it was closed too). It is commonly set by adjusting the point gap with the points shoe at the peak of the distributor shaft lobe but as Hanley mentions, far more accurately with a dwell meter.

The link I included in post #15 mentions a sliding window in the distributor cap - common on Delco caps but not ours. One of our innovative members has addressed this by carefully drilling a hole in the cap at the proper location and angle to allow an allen wrench to access the point adjustment screw.
Name:  A4 dizzy hole.jpg
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Hanley, I have electronic ignition and there are no adjustments. I suppose it could be checked with a dwell meter and some idea of what reading to expect but if it's out of spec the only remedy is replacement.

edit 2 years later
Unfortunately that little hole defeats the ignition proof feature of the distributor cap. Placing a screen over the hole restores ignition proofing however. I'm not privy to the screen specifications except that it is metallic
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Last edited by ndutton; 03-30-2013 at 03:14 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 05-03-2011, 11:05 AM
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Talking A challenge

Neil - I am going to go out on the limb and say - we are right and the link is wrong: dwell is number of crankshaft degees the points remain closed.

Edit: We are right! Do the google- except I was wrong about which degrees - distributor degrees is correct, not crankshaft.

Last edited by hanleyclifford; 05-03-2011 at 11:10 AM.
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Old 05-04-2011, 02:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hanleyclifford View Post
Neil - I have never had electronic ignition so I do not know if it can be adjusted. In one of his posts Don Moyer speaks of elecronic ignition having a greater dwell than standard point ignition.
Shawn - After reading the link Neil provided, I may have a misunderstanding of what dwell actually is. All my life I thought dwell was defined as the number of crankshaft degrees the points stay closed for each cylinder, but the link says open. This I do know: as I decrease the point gap, the dwell reading rises. I adjust points until I get the factory dwell specification no matter what the point gap has to be to get it.
So then you are saying that it dwells longer as you close the gap.?
Makes sense,, as it was my understanding that if you increased the dwell, you lengthen the duration the gap stays closed. It dwells, as in waits, there longer,, before opening again.
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Last edited by 13jeff13; 05-04-2011 at 02:20 AM. Reason: context
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