#26
IP: 75.157.247.99
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Pan off + photos + more questions
Pan is off without incident...thanks for the help guys. Photos tell the story. Glad we had the straps as its pretty hard to keep tapping around and being ready to support the pan when she lets go...even with help.
Mildly concerned about what's inside. Bear in mind she ran for four hours after rebuild in 2009 (supposedly without a problem) and then sat full of salt water til now. The oil I drained last week looked almost new. A bit of surface rust here and there as you'll see in pics. A tiny bit of goo at the deepest end of the pan (trying to show its viscosity on my finger: photo. Thicker than it looks in the picture). Can that indicate a problem of water getting in the oil, or just par for the course sitting almost three years? Condensation mixing with the oil? More questions to come.... Thanks!
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Marty 1967 Tartan 27 Bowen Island, BC |
#27
IP: 75.157.247.99
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assessing the guts
A few photos to show the condition of the bottom end. Wondering if I should be torquing, cleaning or checking anything while I have the chance.
Are the cotter pins in the transmission correct? (once had the king pin on the starter bendix let go as the cotter pan was too small and allowed play that ate way at it...had to dig bits out of the starter while under way in a rough situation. Turned out okay though as my wife learned to sail solo that day and I learned how to take apart the starter while seasick). Thanks!
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Marty 1967 Tartan 27 Bowen Island, BC |
#28
IP: 174.65.44.114
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Cotter pin looks original. That's what mine looked like.
You might wiggle the rod ends a bit but other than that I'd say just clean up the rust. Others might offer more. Oil screen looks nothing like mine. I have the one Moyer offers in the catalog. If it works, keep as is. Oil looks good. Engine looks good.
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"Jim" S/V "Ahoi" 1967 Islander 29 Harbor Island, San Diego 2/7/67 A4 Engine Block date |
#29
IP: 174.94.19.65
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The rust and pitting on those cam lobes will destroy the profile in short order - if it has not done so already.
I'd be looking at the rust on those crank end caps really carefully as well. It's nearly torn done now...might as well go the rest of the way. My 0.02$ worth. |
#30
IP: 75.157.247.99
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assessing the rust
Hey Guys,
Thanks for looking at the photos. The rust looks worse in the photos than in reality, but I don't want to minimize any problems. I'll see how well I can clean it up tomorrow and see what comes off. I'll post photos: appreciate any feedback or suggestions about what to look for or how to proceed....and how to clean it. Steel wool okay? Hand (not drill) wire brush? Brass wire brush? Green scotch pad? "I'd be looking at the rust on those crank end caps really carefully as well." Can you say more about what to look for? Appreciate your .02 worth. Any other opinions? Thanks, Marty
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Marty 1967 Tartan 27 Bowen Island, BC |
#31
IP: 75.157.247.99
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cleaned up ok
The rust on the cam shaft and rod ends turned out to be basically rusty liquid. I wiped it off, and can't feel any imperfections on the shiny metal. Turned the flywheel and looked at each surfce of each cam closely. A spot or two is discolored slightly, but I can't feel any pitting or roughness anywhere. Should I do more?
Thanks, Marty
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Marty 1967 Tartan 27 Bowen Island, BC |
#32
IP: 75.157.247.99
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exhaust maifold question
Can anyone tell me what this opening is? I'd like to take it off and put in a brass hex head, but can't unscrew the thing. I'll try heat tomorrow.
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Marty 1967 Tartan 27 Bowen Island, BC |
#33
IP: 174.65.44.114
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Scavenge tube port for late model carbs. If it aint broke...
Picture courtesy of seapadrik in the thread below. http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/sh...=scavenge+tube
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"Jim" S/V "Ahoi" 1967 Islander 29 Harbor Island, San Diego 2/7/67 A4 Engine Block date |
#34
IP: 75.157.247.99
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Nice looking engine....
...and thanks for the info. What year is that A4?
Your motor mounts have got me thinking about how I'm going to reinstall. Our old A4 on our Tartan 27 just uses nuts and bolts though a wood block. I'd like to go to an adjustable mount in case there is any height variation to address. Everything's stripped: hoping to actually start painting this weekend. -Marty
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Marty 1967 Tartan 27 Bowen Island, BC |
#35
IP: 206.125.176.3
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Looking good Marty...keep plugging away at it.
BTW - Moyer sells those motor mounts I think. I am sure they are also available from other sources. They are real nice when you are aligning the prop shaft/coupling assembly during installation.
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-Shawn "Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109 "Twice Around" - '77 C-30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold - SOLD! (no longer a two boat owner!!) |
#36
IP: 75.157.247.99
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installing thoughts
Thanks for the encouragement, Sastanley. I am having fun! Amazing how you have to keep looking over the horizon at the next stages of the project to know what to do and what you need.
Thinking ahead to the install, I talked to a local A4 guy (who sells engine mounts). Learned two things: 1. He says that adding engine mounts when the the stringers are set up for through bolts and/or lag bolts creates more problems than it solves because of the added height. He suggests shimming it into place and then bolting it. 2. He also said that the boat needs to be in the water, not on the hard, when the engine is shimmed and attached to the shaft. He says that in older boats there is flex in the hull that gets distorted on a stand. I thought that made a lot of sense. I'd really like to hear thought and experienced opinions about the above! Thanks, Marty
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Marty 1967 Tartan 27 Bowen Island, BC |
#37
IP: 174.65.51.3
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I considered the same thing but overruled myself. The stringers and hanger bolts on my boat have been working successfully since 1967!.
Adding the extra work for yourself is your choice (you would have to cut the stringers down a few inches or so). The benefit in my case didn't seem worth it. I mean, if it took a "thin dime" to shim vertically and about that to align it horizontally I'd say I'm ahead of the game at 20 cents versus the $150ish to get 4 good quality mounts. Alignment is not that difficult with stringers, they did most of the work for you at the factory when the boat was built. Maybe a little settling and compression from the engine weight has caused some sag. It can't be that much though. Just my opinion.
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"Jim" S/V "Ahoi" 1967 Islander 29 Harbor Island, San Diego 2/7/67 A4 Engine Block date |
#38
IP: 206.125.176.3
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I agree with Jim. The added height of the engine sitting on top of the mounts would create more work for sure.
Re: your #2 - the A4 guy is correct, however, they don't flex that much. I did mine on the hard, and re-checked it in the water and it hadn't moved..I'll admit the C-30's hull is, shall we say...beefy... , but your A4 guy is correct there is certainly a possibility...the boat shifts from sitting on jackstands and the hull's weight resting on the keel, to the hull floating, and now holding the weight of the keel thru the bilge structure and keel bolts. (Neil explained that to me during my prop shaft saga.) I would align it on the hard, plop her in and re-check her after a few days of floating and make any adjustments that are necessary. It is a really long thread, but over in the "drive train/propellers" section, I have a thread titled "Indigo" that started with me buying a new prop and ended up with me fixing a hole in the shaft tube and replacing everything behind the tailshaft! If you wanted to skip all the other stuff, the re-assembly part is near the end of the thread..you can probably skip to about post #300.
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-Shawn "Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109 "Twice Around" - '77 C-30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold - SOLD! (no longer a two boat owner!!) Last edited by sastanley; 11-04-2011 at 09:37 AM. |
#39
IP: 75.157.247.99
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install in two stages....
Thanks Shawn,
Do everything on the hard except bolt her down and attach the shaft sounds like a plan. There isn't anywhere in the water near the lift for us to hang out and fiddle around with wiring and pipe fittings for long, so I am wanting to do that part slowly and carefully on the hard. We are planning on using our inflatable (with a 2hp Honda) lashed to the rail to motor over...might just motor back to our dock to finish the install. -Marty
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Marty 1967 Tartan 27 Bowen Island, BC |
#40
IP: 75.157.247.99
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motor mounts
Thank Jim and Shawn,
Sounds like I'm sticking with the original way of mounting...no new mounts. -Marty
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Marty 1967 Tartan 27 Bowen Island, BC |
#41
IP: 75.157.247.99
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Paint conflict
All the pros I've talked to say to prime before painting. I have a Rustoleum primer and Rustoleum high heat paint. (both light gray) The high heat paint says "do not prime".
Advice? Thought of just trying it on something like the alt arm to make sure they are compatible, but maybe the problem is over a longer period of time? Or when it gets hot? -Marty
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Marty 1967 Tartan 27 Bowen Island, BC |
#42
IP: 206.125.176.3
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I did Rustoleum primer (rusty brown-ish/red color) and then painted. I am currently using Rustoleum hammered copper (not a high heat paint), but I think the primer was. I think the primer will stick to the bare metal better. Make sure you wipe the bare metal before painting, with something like acetone to remove all oil/fingerprints, etc.. so the paint will stick & making sure there are no other residues. If you go check out my album, I think it has some 'in progress' painting pictures.
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-Shawn "Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109 "Twice Around" - '77 C-30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold - SOLD! (no longer a two boat owner!!) |
#43
IP: 75.157.247.99
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Paint
Wondering if there is a more durable option than spray bombs. Is there a 2 part epoxy for engines?
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Marty 1967 Tartan 27 Bowen Island, BC |
#44
IP: 71.252.23.95
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Marty, I dunno...but I would think a 2 part epoxy that can endure summer sunshine with only passive breeze for cooling may be able to handle 175F of a motor.
edit - FYI - My first choice for engine paint was a Duplicolor 'touch up' paint that I sprayed on top of the Rustoleum primer. That worked OK, but it was not very durable.
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-Shawn "Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109 "Twice Around" - '77 C-30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold - SOLD! (no longer a two boat owner!!) Last edited by sastanley; 11-06-2011 at 09:52 PM. Reason: more data |
#45
IP: 75.157.247.99
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Paint thoughts again
Still wondering what the best way to go is. After all this work stripping, cleaning, masking...etc etc..its all for naught if the paint doesn't last. I hope never to see the bottom of the oil pan again, and I want to know its protected.
Today I contacted the major Vancouver marine mechanic service (Stem to Stern), who checked with their wholesaler's paint guy (Western Marine....not West). Came back with the assertion that degreasing, two coats of yellow zinc phosphate primer (95% zinc) and then two coats of acrylic lacquer engine paint was the best way to go. Anyone have any experience with that type of primer on an engine? Any info on how long the Moyer Marine paint lasts? (not that I can get that in Canada) Anyone painted their engine and have it rust free/no peeling 15 years later? Please let me know what you used! Thank you, Marty
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Marty 1967 Tartan 27 Bowen Island, BC |
#46
IP: 128.183.140.38
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1 year down, 14 to go!
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@(^.^)@ Ed 1977 Pearson P-323 "Dolce Vita" with rebuilt Atomic-4 |
#47
IP: 75.157.247.99
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Started putting paint to metal...
...and it feels great to begin the next stage. Today I began with the oil pan. It had been caustic tanked last week, came out beautiful, but grew tiny bits of rust as it sat. It took little time to remove that with my angle grinder and a wire brush. Here's what I did after that:
1. I masked all the gasket faces with artists contact paper and tape. 2. sprayed brake cleaner 3. blew dry immediately with compressed air 4. suited up with heavy rubber gloves, coat, respirator, face shield. Garage fan on, windows open. 5. sprayed yellow zinc chromate primer. Had a hard time deciding between that and yellow zinc phosphate primer, but internet search and discussion with a local boat guy who has been accurate in the past decided me. VERY toxic and carcinogenic, but is sometimes called cold galvanizing. He had long lasting good results on two different projects. Can says "industrial use only" so that was a plus. Sprayed three light coats. Used a heat gun in between as it was a little on the cool side. 6. sprayed a medium gray engine enamel: three medium coats, heat gun in between again. Pictures below: #1- stripped (glare makes it look mottled). #2 - masked. #3 - primed. #4 - painted (3/4" oil plug will come out for the Indigo oil filter kit.) #5 - bit of overspray snuck under the masking...it slipped a little when I turned the pan over to spray the top of the flange. More masking later today, spray those parts tomorrow. When my gasket shows up I'll reinstall the pan, flip over the engine and do the same to the block and head. Feel a little unsure about using that primer on the manifold: might use a contrasting colour high heat paint without primer for that. -Marty
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Marty 1967 Tartan 27 Bowen Island, BC |
#48
IP: 71.183.233.249
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Looks great. Nothing like a clean freshly painted engine. So much easier to love.
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Jeff Taylor Baltic 38DP |
#49
IP: 174.94.19.180
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I have had very good success with electroless nickel (E3) coatings on many components of my motorcycles over the years.
It is an easily applied finish that will cover aluminum or steel parts and offers a very good base for paint of many types. If I ever tear down my 1967 A-4 E3 will be applied to as many components of the engine as I can afford. |
#50
IP: 75.157.247.99
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Tdc
I'm wondering if there is a precise way to mark top dead center before I put the pan on again? Should I be able to figure out which is the compression stroke by looking at the cam shaft? Is there a way to mark the spot on the oil pump pulley?
Thanks!
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Marty 1967 Tartan 27 Bowen Island, BC |
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