Out Of Ideas, won't start

[S/V Albemarle Queen]

My motor wont run. Im out of ideas. Heres the back story. My boat is a 75 C&C27 powered by an atomic 4. In the past I have had some trouble with the engine. A valve in the carb was damaged and required replacement so a new carb went in. I was getting some water in the tank but solved that problem. I had the plugs, points, condenser, and wires changed out. On a run the motor was not giving me a lot less power. I was noticing we dropped from 6 knots to 3 without a change in throttle setting. Then a loud noise and the engine quit. A tow and extensive repair bill later I was back in business. The exhaust pipe broke off the engine due to wear and tear. The yard had to rebuild the set up and use a torch to get an old part off the block. All fired up I went back to go sailing. Motor wouldn't start. Tried using ether. Didn't work. Called the mechanic. He said the coil was bad. Replaced that. Still wont start. It sounds like it wants to start if you understand what I'm saying. I am getting fuel at the carb, sparks in the plugs and coil, oil is clean and fresh with no evidence of water, fuel is clean with no evidence of water (i have pumped the tank dry twice, once i refueled with ethanol free fuel and once with 93 octane) and the cylinders have good compression I have also verified that it is in neutral gear. It's surprisingly easy to have the reverse gear even partially engaged. My thoughts are either vacuum leak, bad fuel pump, or clogged jet in the carb. Does anyone have any ideas? I am spent.

[Marty Levenson]

plugs?

Have you checked that the plugs themselves are getting gas?

Any chance the plug wire sequence is wrong?

You wrote "All fired up I went back to go sailing. Motor wouldn't start." Was the engine running after the yard worked on her?

-Marty

[LastLeg]

I think everyone in this forum has been here, the engine is very basic and it an only be a few things. Are you sure the pump is sending gas?

[hanleyclifford]

Try reducing point gap to .015".

[S/V Albemarle Queen]

Hi all!
Marty: she spit some gas up at me while doing a compression test so I am to assume she's getting fuel into the cylinders. I cross referenced the diagram with the manual and location of the ground coming out of the cap. The cables weren't moved at all as far as i know. I told the yard about the motor not starting back up after the exhaust pipe broke off. They ran the motor pretty hard for a few hours to try and make it quit but she ran and ran without a problem. I went back to take it out and it couldn't start which is when i called them again and found the coil was dead. After yanking it out it made sense considering it was painted over when the motor was painted sometime in the 2004-06 range.
Last leg: the line between the fuel pump and carb was full of fuel when I loosened the bolt on the carb end. I also get a good spray of fuel when doing a compression test.
Hc: I'll try regapping when I get down there this weekend.

[hanleyclifford]

Also make certain you are fully closing the choke during cranking.

[S/V Albemarle Queen]

Will do. I will let y'all know as soon as I can get down to the marina.

[Whippet]

Sponsor's 1-2-3 approach

Hi

Perhaps this document from Don will be helpful. A logical approach to troubleshooting a no-start.

Troubleshooting Concepts.pdf

[domenic]

For the engine to run, you need three things working:

Air, fuel,. And spark.

Take a spark plug wire off a plug, hold the wire about ½” from the head, and hit the starter. If you are getting spark you will see it jump from the wire to the head. If not you have an electrical problem.

Un-hook the fuel line between the fuel pump, and the carburetor. You should have fuel coming from the fuel pump. If not your problem is the fuel pump. Or something between the fuel pump, and the fuel tank.

If fuel comes out of the fuel pump, check the carburetor.

It is just a simple matter of back tracking.

If you find nothing wrong, check your fuel. Ethanol draws in water. The water will always sit in the bottom of the tank.

I always check fuel hoses. Most hoses have a fabric on the inside with a short of liquid robber looking covering. This stuff wears out, and the fabric will flop up and down. This sometimes blocks the flow of fuel. The same thing happens to water hoses.

I suggest, learn how to fix the A-4 yourself. It is a simple engine, and the things that often won’t work, are easy to find, and fix. Everything you need to know about the engine, is on this forum…the guys on here have done it all.

Stay on this forum…in just a few months you will be an A-4 expert. You will learn to love the little beast.

[S/V Albemarle Queen]

dom: -I am getting a spark at each plug and the coil. coil is brand new. plugs have five hours on them
- i am getting fuel in between the pump and carb.
- i did not check the carb but i will.
- fuel is clean. i pumped the tank dry three weeks ago and put in non ethanol fuel. i pumped out the remining fuel to see if there was any water in it and there was none. I replaced it with 93 octane fuel.
- all the fuel lines are older and have not been serviced as long as I have owned the boat.

[romantic comedy]

BTW, you dont need high octane for the Atomic Four. It is a low compression engine. It wont effect your starting though.

[phmccartney]

This sounds all too familiar.

Add to this an oil pressure drop to 15 or less after three hours, and excessive cabin fumes despite a brand new manifold and you'd be describing my engine. I just suffered my final ruined weekend because of this engine and will be repowering with a new diesel.

To address the question, heres my procedure for starting the Atomic Remove the line to the racor to make sure gas is getting out of the tank. then disconnect the line to the carb, rig a bypass switch and run the pump into a jar to see if it pumps gas. replace the fuel filter. Optionally throw out the gas in the tank and put in new. Remove the pump, take it apart, clean it and put it back. Now remove the carb. take it all apart, clean everything, put it back together and put it back on. Mop up all the gas that spilled and run the fan. It should then start. Text your wife to tell her she and the kids can turn around and come back. Repeat these steps each time you want to start the engine. Good luck.

[domenic]

S/V, did you kiss the little bitch? If you have not hit your A4 with a hammer, cursed like a drunken sailor, and vowed to the Gods to deep six her, your not ready to feel the joy of owning an A4. That little piece of crap is the best engine ever built. It's simple, and easy to fix...once you learn how. All your A 4 is doing, is schooling you, which means she likes you. Stay on the forum. Everything you need to know to turn that gal on is right here. After a few rounds with her, you will feel like a fool having paid others to work on her. By the way, what's her name?
She is like learning anything else. You go "Duh," for a time, then the light bulb comes on, and it's simple.

PS..when you kiss her, wait until she cools down. I named my A4 after my second wife, who was bi-polor

Just remembered: Between the gas tank, and the fuel pump is a water separator; That might be full of water. It has a drain on the bottom.

Just remembered this also: Do not open the water inlet before you start the engine. You will pump water into the Cylinders, and it will not start.

[Dave Neptune]

Not the A-4's fault

phfmccartney, don't blame poor maintenance and tuning on the engine. The diesel will be even worse suited to poor maintenance and short runs in and out of the slip, they need to run at temp!
I too was going to replace mine when I bought the boat with a "frozen" engine. I got it running and keep up with maintenance. I consumed the "money" with liquid bread and trips to Catalina instead. By the way I got it running 29 years ago and it will be 30 this October! The engine has been running now since Nov of 73 when the boat was delivered and is original except for one exhaust valve from the "frozen" scenario a long long time ago.
Once the expense is fully realized you may do well to reconsider due to the assistance you can find here on this forum.

Dave Neptune

[JOHN COOKSON]

One Thing For Sure......

Add to this an oil pressure drop to 15 or less after three hours, and excessive cabin fumes despite a brand new manifold and you'd be describing my engine. I just suffered my final ruined weekend because of this engine and will be repowering with a new diesel.

To address the question, heres my procedure for starting the Atomic Remove the line to the racor to make sure gas is getting out of the tank. then disconnect the line to the carb, rig a bypass switch and run the pump into a jar to see if it pumps gas. replace the fuel filter. Optionally throw out the gas in the tank and put in new. Remove the pump, take it apart, clean it and put it back. Now remove the carb. take it all apart, clean everything, put it back together and put it back on. Mop up all the gas that spilled and run the fan. It should then start. Text your wife to tell her she and the kids can turn around and come back. Repeat these steps each time you want to start the engine. Good luck.

You are going to have to deal with the fuel system and what sounds like KRAP in the tank no matter what engine you have on the boat.

Here's a couple of ideas:
A): If the A4 is running, run off an auxiliary tank with clean fuel for the rest of the season. Use a straight line auxiliary tank to fuel pump bypassing the filters. At least you will get some use out of your boat this season.
B): Pull the outlet tube out of the fuel tank. If there is any sort of screen or filter remove it. Maybe KRAP in the tank is blocking the end of the outlet tube. Any KRAP can be taken care of by the filters.

Best of luck.


TRUE GRIT