New boat - 1983 Catalina 27

[bryankaras]

Hi, everyone - first time on your forum - thanks for all the helpful resources. Just picked up at auction an '83 Catalina 27. It's in the water, but having a hard time getting the engine started. We had it going a few times for 5-6 minutes at a time, but only at high RPMs. As soon as we let the throttle off it would die.

Oil looks good, I think the fuel is okay. I'm replacing plugs, wires, upgrading to Igniter ignition, I'm guessing I need a carb rebuild kit - because as you'll see in one of the photos and videos... she's leaking fuel - looks like from the seam between the flame arrestor and the carb.

Here's an album of photos / videos showing the cabin / engine:

https://goo.gl/photos/LJhGp9XPyaGDCH5J7

Anything else you're seeing? Am I on the right track to rebuild the carb?

Thanks!

[Ken Rockwell]

I just throw ideas like there facts but my guess is your carb is overflowing. Pry just needs a cleaning. Put a fine line of gasket maker where the carb separates, as it will surely rip the old gasket a little.
Make sure to blow in the fuel inlet while moving the floats up and down in order to ensure the needle valve is closing. The location that you're describing the leak, is the overflow. The overflow has a tiny brass tube that sucks the fuel/oil out, its clogged too.

[ndutton]

Yep, looks like the float valve is stuck open. A carburetor rebuild should solve that but it's important to be thorough, get everything cleaned out including the tiny idle ports. Recommend you purchase the Moyer Manual and even consider their carburetor video. Both are money well spent. One thing to check during the rebuild is fuel inside the floats (shake and listen). That's a big no-no and easy to miss if you're not looking for it. Don't reinstall leaky floats.

Now, about the Ignitor Electronic Ignition, there is a system analysis we have developed that is critical to a successful ignition system upgrade. Without following its recommendation you stand a good chance of building future problems into your engine that will have to be dealt with sooner or later. There are many threads on the forum that discuss it such as this one. For the full Monty there's the Coil Input thread, a 5 star, 289 post discussion.

[sastanley]

Neil's comments with EI are spot on..they throw another whole variable into the equation.

For now, I might recommend you stick to points to get her going..they are proven and there are extenuating circumstances that need to be dealt with related to electronic ignition if you go that route. Again, (referencing Neil's links) I recommend you just get it running, and then work on "upgrades" like EI later.

My other piece of advice..DO NOT do too much at once..it is hard to troubleshoot when you change lots of stuff..I have been there done that, hence my idea to stick with fresh points/condenser/cap/rotor for now.

[JOHN COOKSON]

The copper tube between the fuel pump and carb looks suspect. If I'm not seeing a photo artifact there is some white something wrapped around it - maybe to seal a hole?
I'd deep six the tube and install the Moyer polishing filter between the fuel pump and carb when you do the carb rebuild.

+1 on the idea of only changing\repairing one thing at a time.

TRUE GRIT

Edit: It looks like someone used goop on the gasket between the two carb halves. Might be a good idea to check the two surfaces for flatness while you have it apart.

[bryankaras]

Thanks for all the replies. Super helpful.

That's a whole rabbit hole on the EI... Totally unaware of all that. The previous owner of the older Catalina 27 I owned before had done the upgrade and recommended it. I don't think I ever had any problems.

Reading a bit into that thread - seems like there isn't a problem on the Moyer coils. How to tell? Engine serial is 205294.

[ndutton]

At one time the Moyer coils were manufactured with a 4.3Ω internal resistance although as time goes on and supplies and vendors change you can never assume consistency. That's why we always recommend checking it out for yourself, measure the resistance between the two small posts no matter where you bought the coil (Moyer is still the best source) and apply the simple math formula provided in the thread.

It's a simple but critical step in electronic ignition installation and easy to remedy if the coil resistance is a little shy, far better than the mystery shut downs we experienced way back when. Since developing the protocol there have been zero shut downs due to coil overheating on EI engines that diligently followed the recommendations.

BTW, marine mechanics don't get it and Pertronix, manufacturer of the Ignitor®, still doesn't get it. Other electronic ignition suppliers for Atomic 4 engines do though. This puts you ahead of the game.

[bryankaras]

- http://www.atomic4.com/balres.html - A Ballast Resistor is now included in Indigo's kits.

Wish I'd seen this all before I ordered the Ignitor from Moyer. Indigo kit has everything for the upgrade - plugs and wires included.

[ndutton]

Yep, Indigo gets it. When your coil arrives please make the measurement. BTW, a resistor is eight bucks at NAPA.

[bryankaras]

another question - on fuel filter.

i'm not sure if this was a customization from a previous owner... my old boat had a fuel filter/water seperator... this one has an interesting filter on the line from the tank to the pump.



Opening it up, I found this:




I'm not sure if it's doing the same thing as the Racor sold on the Moyer site, or if that's worth swapping out as well. It seems to be mounted in exactly the same way the Racor would mount...





I'll try and get a better photo of it next time I'm down at the marina.

[Ken Rockwell]

A fuel filter is a fuel filter. If it says or implies boats it's twice as much. I had the same carb on a 460 international farmall, slightly larger. Don't get nervous about rebuilding the carb. You're just splitting it in half and spraying it down. Nothing is going to fall out or go flying. Just hit all the holes and you're done. The floats could be full of fuel but it's pretty rare. Could be ignition but you always start with the carb and filing the points.

[ndutton]

Bryan, get the Moyer carburetor video. This is exactly why it exists.

Also, here's a brief video that mentions the difference between plain filtration and water separation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctL7WLZYfvk

[thatch]

Bryan, I have the same filter on my Cat. 30. One thing that I like about that style of element is that it can be more easilly cut open to see what kind of stuff has crept into your fuel tank.
Tom

[bryankaras]

New: fuel filter, plugs, wires

Rebuilt carburetor with Moyer kit, dialed-in throttle, idle, choke.

Cleaned out tank, cleaned fuel lines, fresh fuel.


Running like a charm. Starts right up, idles smooth, accelerates like a champ.


Thanks, everyone for your help! Looking forward to peace of mind this sailing season!

[ndutton]

THAT'S what we like to hear. Congrats.

[sastanley]

bryan..good luck. These old motors do require TLC, so just stay on top of things and let us know how it goes.

I had a little trouble with my motor this weekend..she ran great for 2 hours and then suddenly started missing and running rough in the harbor 1/4 mile from the dock (of course ) , but she made it in. (In hindsight, this was the first outing this season, and it was rolly with lots of wakes and other boats around.) Once docked, I drained some fuel from the carb bowl and found a few mystery flecks of debris, and then I ran her wide open at the dock for 20 minutes today after that with no hiccups...they just need a clean fuel supply (and compression and good ignition) and a little TLC. I suspect the flecks of debris were clogging the main jet.