Return to the home page...

Go Back   Moyer Marine Atomic 4 Community - Home of the Afourians > Discussion Topics > General Interest

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   IP: 73.129.213.235
Old 08-26-2017, 04:07 PM
Hymodyne's Avatar
Hymodyne Hymodyne is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Salisbury, MD
Posts: 376
Thanks: 53
Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts
mast to mast base corrsosion

corrosion between mast base and bottom of mast tube will not allow me to separate the two, even after screws were removed or drilled out if they sheared. I've saturated the base with pb baster, but other than a few air bubbles at the joint, no movement.

my mast base is cast aluminum, and has a insert for the deck about the size of a snickers bar. I put a wrench on this part and tried to shake and move the base with no luck. Top mast cap came out fine, lower one has seen more salt water.

Suggestions?

James
Reply With Quote
  #2   IP: 24.152.132.65
Old 08-26-2017, 04:10 PM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 198
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,425 Posts
Is the mast off the boat on horses? Mast length?
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
  #3   IP: 24.224.194.51
Old 08-26-2017, 04:35 PM
Mo's Avatar
Mo Mo is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Halifax NS,
Posts: 4,470
Thanks: 292
Thanked 411 Times in 272 Posts
Any Pictures?
__________________
Mo

"Odyssey"
1976 C&C 30 MKI

The pessimist complains about the wind.
The optimist expects it to change.
The realist adjusts the sails.
...Sir William Arthur Ward.
Reply With Quote
  #4   IP: 73.129.213.235
Old 08-26-2017, 08:48 PM
Hymodyne's Avatar
Hymodyne Hymodyne is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Salisbury, MD
Posts: 376
Thanks: 53
Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts
mast is on horses on the ground and 37 feet in length. Pictures tomorrow.
Reply With Quote
  #5   IP: 24.152.132.65
Old 08-26-2017, 09:49 PM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 198
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,425 Posts
Buy 10' sticks of the cheapest ˝" metal pipe you can find, 4 of them. Insert them into the mast from the top, threading each length to the last until the assembled length reaches the mast step. A few love taps with a hammer should do the trick. Roll the mast between taps to work evenly around the mast step. PVC is too flexible to transfer the striking force over 40 feet effectively.
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
  #6   IP: 73.129.213.235
Old 08-27-2017, 08:06 PM
Hymodyne's Avatar
Hymodyne Hymodyne is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Salisbury, MD
Posts: 376
Thanks: 53
Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts
A friend with a boat at the yard brought an electrician's fishing wire that we used to thread the new coax the length of the mast. First attempt the shepherd's crook at the end of the wire caught the wiring for the mast light and broke it, so now I have to replace that too
one step forward...
James
Reply With Quote
  #7   IP: 148.74.164.249
Old 08-28-2017, 08:10 AM
Clucas's Avatar
Clucas Clucas is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 94
Thanks: 1
Thanked 12 Times in 10 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
Buy 10' sticks of the cheapest ˝" metal pipe you can find, 4 of them. Insert them into the mast from the top, threading each length to the last until the assembled length reaches the mast step. A few love taps with a hammer should do the trick. Roll the mast between taps to work evenly around the mast step. PVC is too flexible to transfer the striking force over 40 feet effectively.
Good idea. Since the mast and the base are both aluminum, I don't know whether heat would help (if they were dis-similar metals, then yes). That said, could try a propane torch and applying a candle stub where the base and mast meet -- capillary action might draw in some of the wax and help loosen things up. I wouldn't go crazy with it though. You might try it where the screws were -- I'm guessing corrosion where the stainless screws and aluminum are what's causing the problem.
Reply With Quote
  #8   IP: 72.194.223.97
Old 08-28-2017, 08:28 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,500
Thanks: 54
Thanked 855 Times in 629 Posts
I vote for heat + impact with a metal pipe down the mast. If you are near the water be careful the base does not land in the water should it pop loose.
I've been around this mulberry bush stripping the end fittings off a boom. Heat from a propane torch and impact did the trick.

TRUE GRIT
Reply With Quote
  #9   IP: 73.129.213.235
Old 08-28-2017, 08:34 PM
Hymodyne's Avatar
Hymodyne Hymodyne is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Salisbury, MD
Posts: 376
Thanks: 53
Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts
we got the wire unstuck and eventually threaded the new coax. pulling the base off wasn't necessary.

James
Reply With Quote
  #10   IP: 24.152.132.65
Old 08-28-2017, 09:17 PM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 198
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,425 Posts
How do you re-step the mast with the base stuck on it?
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
  #11   IP: 72.194.223.97
Old 08-28-2017, 11:21 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,500
Thanks: 54
Thanked 855 Times in 629 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
How do you re-step the mast with the base stuck on it?
How did you unstep the mast with the base stuck on it?
Neil: Isn't the base attached to the boat in some way or am I not remembering correctly? Would a keel mounted mast make any difference?

TRUE GRIT
Reply With Quote
  #12   IP: 24.152.132.65
Old 08-28-2017, 11:47 PM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 198
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,425 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHN COOKSON View Post
Neil: Isn't the base attached to the boat in some way or am I not remembering correctly? Would a keel mounted mast make any difference?
Every sailboat I ever built (100's) or was otherwise involved (many 100's more) regardless of size had the mast step affixed to either the deck via stainless lag bolts into a reinforcement/compression post structure in the case of deck stepped masts or via stainless machine screws into a structural steel armature in the bilge in the case of keel stepped masts. The step fit into the mast's heel to check fore and aft and lateral movement.

Following James' thread I could not help but think a stuck mast step is not a normal condition so with the mast on horses this is the ideal time to deal with it. It's reasonable to assume the mast end has been corroded, probably on the inside where it cannot be seen, the reason the step is stuck. There is no greater force on a sailboat than mast compression so if it were me I'd want that area to be as pristine as humanly possible and to that end step removal, careful inspection and possible remediation would be high on my project list. Remediation might be as simple as drilling water drain holes to keep the step area as dry as possible.

Like I said, now is the time. Sorry for preaching James, just expressing my concern.
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others

Last edited by ndutton; 08-28-2017 at 11:50 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13   IP: 72.194.223.97
Old 08-29-2017, 12:28 AM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,500
Thanks: 54
Thanked 855 Times in 629 Posts
Isn't there a product that acts as a barrier to electrolysis between metals?
When I had my mast dropped years ago my rigger used something like that. I think it was aluminalstic?
My rigger suggested it so there would not be electrolysis between the mast and the step.

TRUE GRIT

Last edited by JOHN COOKSON; 08-29-2017 at 12:54 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #14   IP: 24.152.132.65
Old 08-29-2017, 12:37 AM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 198
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,425 Posts
I prefer NOALOX, an anti-oxidant compound used in the electrical industry for aluminum wire terminations. Even Home Depot carries it.
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ndutton For This Useful Post:
lat 64 (09-03-2017), Matts Dad (01-22-2018)
  #15   IP: 73.129.213.235
Old 08-29-2017, 06:23 AM
Hymodyne's Avatar
Hymodyne Hymodyne is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Salisbury, MD
Posts: 376
Thanks: 53
Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts
the mast base fits into a space on the deck. I will continue to try to remove the base and address the corrosion.

Thank you for the replies and concern,

James
Reply With Quote
  #16   IP: 24.152.132.65
Old 08-29-2017, 08:05 AM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 198
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,425 Posts
Is there a picture available of the deck where the step goes?
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
  #17   IP: 73.129.213.235
Old 08-29-2017, 02:43 PM
Hymodyne's Avatar
Hymodyne Hymodyne is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Salisbury, MD
Posts: 376
Thanks: 53
Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts
partial pic
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #18   IP: 24.152.132.65
Old 08-29-2017, 03:00 PM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 198
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,425 Posts
Do I understand the part stuck in the mast has a rectangular tenon that mates to the pictured mortise? If yes, that explains the re-stepping question quite well.
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
  #19   IP: 72.194.223.97
Old 08-29-2017, 04:18 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,500
Thanks: 54
Thanked 855 Times in 629 Posts
This might work:
Having a crew member apply heat with a torch while you use a hammer to impact. Be sure to use a piece of wood between the mast and the hammer so you don't tear up the mast.

TRUE GRIT
Reply With Quote
  #20   IP: 73.129.213.235
Old 08-30-2017, 05:09 PM
Hymodyne's Avatar
Hymodyne Hymodyne is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Salisbury, MD
Posts: 376
Thanks: 53
Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
Every sailboat I ever built (100's) or was otherwise involved (many 100's more) regardless of size had the mast step affixed to either the deck via stainless lag bolts into a reinforcement/compression post structure in the case of deck stepped masts or via stainless machine screws into a structural steel armature in the bilge in the case of keel stepped masts. The step fit into the mast's heel to check fore and aft and lateral movement.

Following James' thread I could not help but think a stuck mast step is not a normal condition so with the mast on horses this is the ideal time to deal with it. It's reasonable to assume the mast end has been corroded, probably on the inside where it cannot be seen, the reason the step is stuck. There is no greater force on a sailboat than mast compression so if it were me I'd want that area to be as pristine as humanly possible and to that end step removal, careful inspection and possible remediation would be high on my project list. Remediation might be as simple as drilling water drain holes to keep the step area as dry as possible.

Like I said, now is the time. Sorry for preaching James, just expressing my concern.
Well, it looks like I have to fix this base now. New tinned wire for the steaming light came today, and I cannot re-thread the new wire with the base on.

If the affected area was irrigated and made to vibrate could the corrosion be removed that way from the joint? pb blaster or some other penetrant and movement

James
Reply With Quote
  #21   IP: 24.152.132.65
Old 08-30-2017, 07:32 PM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 198
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,425 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hymodyne View Post
If the affected area was irrigated and made to vibrate could the corrosion be removed that way from the joint? pb blaster or some other penetrant and movement
Anything is possible I suppose but 'taint nuthin like the battering ram described earlier.
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2017, 07:49 AM
edwardc
This message has been deleted by edwardc.
  #22   IP: 72.194.223.97
Old 08-31-2017, 11:16 AM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,500
Thanks: 54
Thanked 855 Times in 629 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
Anything is possible I suppose but 'taint nuthin like the battering ram described earlier.
Dang right!
Pounding on stuff is psychologically satisfying.
Just don't over do it.................

TRUE GRIT
Reply With Quote
  #23   IP: 73.129.213.235
Old 08-31-2017, 05:05 PM
Hymodyne's Avatar
Hymodyne Hymodyne is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Salisbury, MD
Posts: 376
Thanks: 53
Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts
Taught my last class, got on the bike and headed to the boatyard. With mallet and screwdriver, and copious amounts of pb blaster, I was able to get the base off and cleaned.
found out that an ear on the mast top casting is cracked. 3/16 stainless plate coming to make matching covers for both sides of the casting that I'll drill for the backstay

James
Attached Images
   

Last edited by Hymodyne; 08-31-2017 at 05:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #24   IP: 24.152.132.65
Old 09-01-2017, 08:20 AM
ndutton's Avatar
ndutton ndutton is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 9,619
Thanks: 198
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,425 Posts
I suggest reassembling with a coat of NOALOX between the mast extrusion and the shoe to check the corrosion and adding 3/8" drain holes on both sides so water that accumulates inside the mast has a way out.

How does the corrosion look on the inside of the extrusion?
__________________
Neil
1977 Catalina 30
San Pedro, California
prior boats 1987 Westsail 32, 1970 Catalina 22
Had my hands in a few others
Reply With Quote
  #25   IP: 73.129.213.235
Old 09-01-2017, 11:34 AM
Hymodyne's Avatar
Hymodyne Hymodyne is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Salisbury, MD
Posts: 376
Thanks: 53
Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts
interior spaces are ok, once cleaned up. I plan to re assemble with an anti corrosive in place between cast base and mast extrusion.
James
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pearson 30 mast information rockhopper Pearson 18 08-22-2017 07:17 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


Universal® is a registered trademark of Westerbeke Corporation

Copyright © 2004-2024 Moyer Marine Inc.

All Rights Reserved