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  #26   IP: 138.207.175.104
Old 12-21-2019, 07:07 PM
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Business took me to Berlin shortly after the fall of the Berlin Wall. I remember scores of two-cycle autos, limped across the old border and abandoned.

I don't remember a smell, because that required them to be running.

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Old 12-22-2019, 07:55 PM
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Ok, so went down to give the boat a much needed scrub...wanted to check on my work...opened engine hatch and a strong smell of gas...feeling around, it seems like gas is leaking out the air intake/flame arrestor.

When I rebuilt the carb, it recommended that you seat (gently) the adjustable main jet...then turn it out 2 full turns. I thought that was a bit much, so I did 1.5 turns.

I did notice that I don't need choke to start from cold, which can't be right...am I flooding the carb so that fuel is coming out the air intake?

Adam
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Old 12-23-2019, 01:45 AM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
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The fuel flooding is being caused by the inlet needle valve not sealing correctly.

A hole in the float would cause this. Also the way I understand it is that the needle and the seat should both be replaced at the same time because different companies use different specifications for those parts.

Is the bottom of the fuel tank higher than the carburetor? If so it be set up for a siphon.
Is there a fuel shut off valve at the tank? Some have two shut off valves for an added measure of safety: one just after the tank and one just before the carburetor.

ex TRUE GRIT

Edit: Maybe just maybe there is a bit of crud between the seat and needle. Try cleaning up the mess and starting the engine. If there is junk in the needle valve you might flush it out. A somewhat longer range goal would be to make sure the carburetor is supplied with 100% uncontaminated gasoline.

Last edited by JOHN COOKSON; 12-23-2019 at 11:06 AM.
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  #29   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 12-23-2019, 09:27 AM
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John, as usual, is exactly right but one thing he left out is the danger. A single spark from any source with gasoline vapor inside the boat can blow it to smithereens. Please proceed with extreme caution.
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Old 12-23-2019, 10:57 AM
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Adam, yikes. Two things to figure out on the carb and one regarding the tank position as per Al.

You mention the adj jet. I have had some poor experiences with these and I don't like them because they can leak. We will get to the adjusting procedure later once the leak is fixed. Is the leak coming from the adj jet?

RE the floats and the needle & seat. If it is leaking from the inside and not the adj jet removal will be necessary. The "bowl assembly" can leak in 2 ways. One way is a hole in the float from tweeking, this can be checked by shaking the float of feeling the fuel in it rolling around. The float can be drained and soldered shut again although a new float is first choice.
The second is the needle & seat (N/S). Take a good look at the needle, is it a soft tipped or brass? Then look into the seat at the bottom with a magnifying glass. The seat should look clean and free of nicks. The seat can be dressed if it is compromised and we'll cover that once we know what is causing the leak. Also the seat must be firmly "seated" to seal the threads usually with a fiber washer.

I have always suggested a pressure gage in front of the carb. However the one thing I do is mount a valve on the exit side of the gage for shutting the fuel off to let the engine run out of fuel. No leaks and it keeps the carb cleaner.

Your on the right track.
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  #31   IP: 98.189.79.99
Old 12-23-2019, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Neptune View Post
Adam, yikes. Two things to figure out on the carb and one regarding the tank position as per Al.

You mention the adj jet. I have had some poor experiences with these and I don't like them because they can leak. We will get to the adjusting procedure later once the leak is fixed. Is the leak coming from the adj jet?

RE the floats and the needle & seat. If it is leaking from the inside and not the adj jet removal will be necessary. The "bowl assembly" can leak in 2 ways. One way is a hole in the float from tweeking, this can be checked by shaking the float of feeling the fuel in it rolling around. The float can be drained and soldered shut again although a new float is first choice.
The second is the needle & seat (N/S). Take a good look at the needle, is it a soft tipped or brass? Then look into the seat at the bottom with a magnifying glass. The seat should look clean and free of nicks. The seat can be dressed if it is compromised and we'll cover that once we know what is causing the leak. Also the seat must be firmly "seated" to seal the threads usually with a fiber washer.

I have always suggested a pressure gage in front of the carb. However the one thing I do is mount a valve on the exit side of the gage for shutting the fuel off to let the engine run out of fuel. No leaks and it keeps the carb cleaner.

Your on the right track.
Dave Neptune
Ok, going to take it off and pull apart again...I ended up not replacing the needle and seat because I didn't have a flat head screwdriver big enough to fit the seat properly without potential of damaging...good excuse to get more tools...I will replace the needle and seat right away and check the floats for leaks.

John Cookson, thank you so much!

N_Dutton...I have the fuel valve at the tank shut off just in case and both battery banks are turned off...I will be heading down this afternoon.

Thank you all!
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Old 12-23-2019, 03:18 PM
JOHN COOKSON JOHN COOKSON is offline
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..I ended up not replacing the needle and seat because I didn't have a flat head screwdriver big enough to fit the seat properly without potential of damaging...good excuse to get more tools.
Here's my way.
1st get the proper tool.
Put the carb half over a piece of 2X4 or 4X4. Hold with one hand, get square over (stand up) and twist the tool with the other hand. This will avoid any sideways torque. You will probably be amazed how easy the seat comes loose.

Stick with it. You are getting closer and learning a lot.

ex TRUE GRIT
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  #33   IP: 98.189.79.99
Old 12-26-2019, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHN COOKSON View Post
Here's my way.
1st get the proper tool.
Put the carb half over a piece of 2X4 or 4X4. Hold with one hand, get square over (stand up) and twist the tool with the other hand. This will avoid any sideways torque. You will probably be amazed how easy the seat comes loose.

Stick with it. You are getting closer and learning a lot.

ex TRUE GRIT
Thank John....I'll try that if it is still too sticky with the proper side flathead.

And yes, I have learned a ton about my engine through all this, non of this has been time wasted since I gained so much knowledge an confidence in my engine now.

And Just FYI everyone...went back down to check on it and there was no more fuel leaking out or gas smell. But with that said, I did have the valve at the tank shut off.

I'll be removing and replacing the needle and seat very soon.
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Old 01-15-2020, 10:54 PM
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Ok, new frustration...

After removing the carb again, I doweled out the seat under the float and ended up putting the new needle in that came with the rebuild kit. Reassembled, re-installed...and seems like the leaking of fuel out of the air intake has stopped...so accomplishment there.

Now however, I am having a few things that are not normal.

1. I am sure I need to do some adjustments of the main jet and the mixtures as I hear a very subtle firing when engine is running.

2. The engine seems to run fine, but when I shut it down, it sounds like something in the engine block does a couple more turns and then I hear what sounds like a tapping, but more like a dripping sound from within the engine. This happens for a few moments after I shut the engine off and then stops.

3. I did a few little adjustment to the main jet, but ended up setting back to 1.5 turns out...last few tries of running the engine, it'll now only run with the choke half pulled. This was not happened when I was first firing it up tonight.


So, I am getting it to run, no more fuel leak...but I am not happy with the way it is running or the strange sounds when I shut it off.

Anyone have any suggestions.

Adam
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Old 01-20-2020, 11:56 AM
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Ok, went and bough a new wrench set that fits better in the area where I have access to one of the bolts. Re-attached the carb, making sure there is no air leak and we are all good!...simple things make the biggest difference.

Engine still makes a weird noise after shut down, almost like the prop tries to do another turn or two...and then I hear a weird dripping noise from somewhere around the alternator area, but more inside the engine.

I am not sure if it did this before I rebuilt the carb at all or not, but does anyone have ideas on what that could be?

Thanks,
Adam
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Old 01-20-2020, 02:33 PM
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Can you record it and post it here in the form of a YouTube video?

Is what you hear raw water draining backwards?

Bill
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Old 01-21-2020, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
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Can you record it and post it here in the form of a YouTube video?

Is what you hear raw water draining backwards?

Bill
That is usually not a good sign if that is what the sound is. Does the engine have a working anti-siphon valve of some kind?
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Old 01-21-2020, 11:41 AM
AFisch AFisch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Administrator View Post
Can you record it and post it here in the form of a YouTube video?

Is what you hear raw water draining backwards?

Bill
Hey Bill, Next time I am down there I'll try to take a video/audio of it and post it up.

Thanks
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Old 01-21-2020, 11:43 AM
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That is usually not a good sign if that is what the sound is. Does the engine have a working anti-siphon valve of some kind?
Hey Joe_db...I hope that is not the case then. Not sure about the anti-siphon valve. What would I be looking for if it does?

I'll google it as well and check. I'll update when I get down there next.

Thanks,
Adam
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Old 01-21-2020, 12:11 PM
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Adam, the anti-syphon valve would be mounted in a "loop" above the waterline on the water line that feeds into the exhaust from the manifold. When the engine is running the water pressure holds the valve closed and the water goes out the exhaust. When the engine is shut down the valve opens and lets air into the line to "break" the syphon. This syphoning is what will fill the engine with water if it fails!!!

Some boats do not have the anti-syphon valve as they are using a different exhaust, even on the A-4's.

Dave Neptune
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Old 01-21-2020, 12:26 PM
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Adam, the anti-syphon valve would be mounted in a "loop" above the waterline on the water line that feeds into the exhaust from the manifold. When the engine is running the water pressure holds the valve closed and the water goes out the exhaust. When the engine is shut down the valve opens and lets air into the line to "break" the syphon. This syphoning is what will fill the engine with water if it fails!!!

Some boats do not have the anti-syphon valve as they are using a different exhaust, even on the A-4's.

Dave Neptune
Ok...really good to know. I'll have a look when I am down there next. Although the noise I am hearing sounds like it is on the other side of the engine from where the exhaust is.

Adam
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Old 01-21-2020, 12:31 PM
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It should look something like this:
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Old 02-10-2020, 01:38 PM
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Hey All...just a quick update.

Ended up going for a sail last Saturday (first time since this problem started before sept)...beautiful day, dolphins, whales, and the kids did not get bored!

I intended on taking a video of the engine when shutting down so you guys could hear the (hopefully) the noise. But, when pulling into the slip, I threw her into reverse to slow down and prop walk me into alignment with the slip as I always do. I normally only do this for a moment and then back into neutral, hop off the boat and tie her up. This time, the engine stalled when I put it in reverse, not right away. I should have given it a little more gas. I did notice that since rebuilding the carb, she does want a little more gas when in forward or reverse as opposed to neutral. Obviously since there is a load on the engine. I am not overly concerned about this, but if anyone has suggestions of making the proper adjustments to the carb to help this, I will take them.

With that said...I intended to take video with audio so you could hear what i am hearing (the dripping or tapping noise). Since I was unable capture it, it went in the back of my mind until now (browsing this forum). I can't recall which thread I read it, but here is my thought on my dripping matter:

I have never closed the raw water valve...could the dripping noise potentially be from all the work I have been doing, cranking engine, etc over and over, eventually bringing too much water in? Next time I am down there, I figured I will pull the spark plugs to see if there is water in the engine (fingers crossed no).

If there is, can I close off the raw water inlet and run the engine for a short time to flush it out? Of course, my worry now would be salt inside the engine since it is raw water cooled.

Adam
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Old 02-10-2020, 03:09 PM
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Hey All...just a quick update.

I am not overly concerned about this, but if anyone has suggestions of making the proper adjustments to the carb to help this, I will take them.
Adam
The first thing to do into make sure the"ignition side" as perfect as possible. Timing, dwell, advance, clean plugs, so on.
Then adjust the idle mixture and idle speed until you find the best combination of settings your engine.
When all is correct (clean prop, trany adjustment ect) you will be able to shift into gear and the engine will not die. At least this is the way it works for an A4.


ex TRUE GRIT
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Old 02-10-2020, 03:43 PM
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Is there a timing mark on the Palmer? If so check all under the cap, points, rotor, cap and c--advance. Once you are sure of the distributor assembly it is time to set the timing. Once done the idle can be adjusted. Start at about 1 1/4 turns out off the seat. The speed is adjusted at the stop on the throttle arm. Check to be sure the gaskets are sealed at the manifold to carb..

Does the Palmer use a scavenge tube? If not there is not an internal one on this carb so a bit of fabricating may be needed for safety.

I think you may be hearing the water draining out of the loop and or exhaust after shutting down, All of the water in the flow will need to settle to the lowest point thus the noise..

Dave Neptune
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Old 02-24-2020, 06:40 PM
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Hey All...so I'm pretty stoked, so far with the perfromance of the engine after all of your help guiding me on solving my problems.

Everyting seems to be getting dialed in nicely...and I am now convinced that the dripping noise is just water dripping back to lowest part. It's probably always done that, I just didn't notice since my head wasn't in the engine so much before problems.

Now that I am getting more educated, and have become more confident, I will definitly be staying on top of her a lot more.

With all that said...I am starting to learn to read spark plugs and getting an idea of whats happening in the engine. My spark plugs look good interms of how they are wearing down...but they are a little white/grey colored...is this an indication of a need to provide more fuel to the mixture?

Adam
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  #47   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 02-28-2020, 10:31 AM
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Adam, part of dialing in an engine is knowing when to stop tweaking. Good to hear the engine is doing well.

https://www.google.com/search?q=read...L0PEPssa9kA480
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Old 02-28-2020, 11:32 AM
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Adam, part of dialing in an engine is knowing when to stop tweaking. Good to hear the engine is doing well.

https://www.google.com/search?q=read...L0PEPssa9kA480
I know I know...I should just stop where I am at...but trying to also prevent future issues...I rebuilt the carb for the first time and think I had the main jet set right...I am going to replace the plugs altogether so I have a clean slate to work with and monitor their wear. I will not touch the carb settings yet.

Thanks for the link...I have watched that video before, but thought I would double check with you guys since I have come to trust the advice given here. On that note...your advice of not tweaking any further (apart from new spark plugs) I will heed.
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Old 02-28-2020, 11:42 AM
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Laguna Niguel? We're almost neighbors. Have you met David Grosse of Boat City Yacht Services in Santa Ana? He's a Palmer guy.
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Old 02-28-2020, 02:22 PM
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Laguna Niguel? We're almost neighbors. Have you met David Grosse of Boat City Yacht Services in Santa Ana? He's a Palmer guy.
I've heard of him...and even reached out when I started coming to dead ends on working out my issue...but you all saved the day and kept encouraging me to stick with it since I was so close. Now she's back up and running.

If you are ever heading south, my boat is in Dana Point...reach out if you're in the area (sailing or not).
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